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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

AIBU to think we need more ^inclusive^ education?

637 replies

LoveFoolMe · 27/01/2016 18:58

AIBU to think we need more inclusive education? If children in a multicultural society such as the UK are educated together surely this promotes more tolerance and better mutual understanding.

So these proposals worry me:

Call to end limit on religious free schools

Considering how divisive and rigid religious attitudes can be, I think it's time to bring children from faith schools into mainstream schools and to encourage these children to mix with more diverse cultures.

Secular schools can still provide fact-based religious education in the classroom and would probably teach their students about a greater range of religions than a faith school would. Parents could, of course, provide a more personal approach to religion for their children outside of school hours if they wanted to.

Let's not further segregate our children by religion.

AIBU to think that reducing (rather than increasing) the number of faith schools in the UK would be far better for our children and far better for our society?

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Original poster
LoveFoolMe · 30/01/2016 21:05

Thankyou BeccaMumsnet, I thought that the Philosophy/Religion section would be more appropriate. I'd be interested to hear more from those keen on increasing the number faith schools to have a balanced debate about these issues.

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LoveFoolMe · 30/01/2016 21:30

So that pupils are taught about other people's religions and to accept a wide variety of beliefs with informed and tolerant discussion. Exactly what I'd hope for Curly.

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LoveFoolMe · 30/01/2016 21:32

And I'm definitely keen on moral codes.

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LoveFoolMe · 30/01/2016 21:35

Everything is taught as FACT. I particularly dislike that. I appreciate that people have a range of cultures and beliefs but it's arrogant to assume that one religious approach is right.

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LoveFoolMe · 30/01/2016 21:44

....there is a more caring family feel to the school. I think this needs to be present in all schools and not just faith schools.

Wouldn't that be great. I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be possible.

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Original poster
LoveFoolMe · 30/01/2016 22:01

Let's stop glossing over.... and discuss the deep rooted held beliefs that inform people's behaviours and dictate their way of life.

I'm all for that, but where/how?

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LoveFoolMe · 30/01/2016 22:39

I refrain from taking part too much in these threads as it is clear that many really do not understand stand what a faith based education is.

I'd like to understand better, Why. What do you think a faith based education should be?

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AlanPacino · 31/01/2016 08:07

I work in early years and I've never needed to refer to God when talking about why kindness and tolerance are important. It seems to me that invoking a God would just cause more problems, for example some people have other gods etc. It's really simple and wrapping it up in a religion just causes divisions.

AlanPacino · 31/01/2016 08:23

zero compassion

Really? No first aiders for example? I suspect your wildly exaggerating.

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2016 08:56

"But the right of parents to raise their children as they see fit should hold a lot of sway especially when education for your children is compulsory."
As I said, I might have a bit of sympathy for this if a) religious people did not ever apply to non faith schools and b) showed any consideration for my desire to rais my children in a secular way.

JassyRadlett · 31/01/2016 09:06

I'm coming late to this, but saw this comment:

Perhaps atheists who object to faith schools could set up atheist or humanist schools.

They can't, unfortunately. It's not permitted by law. You can have faith schools, but truly secular schools aren't allowed.

It's worth remembering also that faith schools are divisive socioeconomically as well as religiously. By sorting children into those whose parents are organised/committed/clued in enough to fulfil entrance criteria, either through true faith (and an absence of shift work taking place on Sundays) or having the knowledge several years before admissions of what they need to do to get their kid into a local school, and those whose parents don't, faith schools that select have a disproportionately well-off intake.

This isn't surprising as faith congregations are disproportionately middle class, and schools that do half their places on faith and half on distance, or aren't completely full with faith places, exacerbate the house price issue even further, as more people compete for fewer places.

For the record, I favour controlled lotteries with an element of socioeconomic smoothing.

headinhands · 31/01/2016 09:07

"But the right of parents to raise their children as they see fit should hold a lot of sway especially when education for your children is compulsory*

Which is why education should be factual. If you're not happy with your children being taught facts you've got big problems.

headinhands · 31/01/2016 09:11

erhaps atheists who object to faith schools could set up atheist or humanist schools

And what do you suppose that would look like? It would just be a school without any religious indoctrination such as assemblies where their local vicar comes in. Currently illegal in the uk.

rogueantimatter · 31/01/2016 10:55

I am Shock at atheist schools being illegal.

Does humanism qualify as a religion?

carltonscroop · 31/01/2016 11:12

It is possible to apply for a variation to the requirement to hold an assembly that is broadly Christian in nature, and faiths schools of different faiths and some community schools have used that.

I do not know if any school has consulted it's parents and its community, found a majority in favour of a different type of assembly, and applied for a variation on that basis.

I would think it very wrong if schools sought to remove RE from their curriculum. In a diverse society, I think it's more important than ever. Both the comparative religions aspect and the morality/ethics/philosophy aspects.

JassyRadlett · 31/01/2016 11:20

I do not know if any school has consulted it's parents and its community, found a majority in favour of a different type of assembly, and applied for a variation on that basis

I don't think it's possible based on the law, as it would lose the primary characteristic of 'worship' which is linked to faith. Variations have been given for other faith or multi-faith worship, I'm not aware of any being given for no worship. If any SACREs have it would be really interesting.

I agree with you on religious education, on the condition that its objective and multi-faith.

rogueantimatter · 31/01/2016 11:34

Perhaps the issue is muddied by the facts of faith schools being oversubscribed and the perception that faith congregations are disproportionately middle class. If that is the case wouldn't that be better for those children who don't live in the (rich) catchment areas of oversubscribed schools; where some of the middle-class children who live in those catchment areas go to faith schools?

I worked in a faith school in a small town - it was arguably more inclusive than the other schools as its pupils lived in all the catchment areas of the town. As with all faith schools (if my understanding is correct) some of its pupils had no/or another faith.

AlanPacino · 31/01/2016 11:40

I would think it very wrong if schools sought to remove RE from their curriculum.

Has anyone suggested that? Religious indoctrination, such as worship assemblies is wholly separate from RE, where children are taught the main tenets of different religions in lesson. I am not happy about religious assemblies but support RE.

AlanPacino · 31/01/2016 11:50

no/or another faith

Most faith schools prioritise applications from other faiths before those with none.
This is from the admission policy of my local cofe primary:

"Priority 5:Children of applicants who reside within the designated area at the time of application and who are committed adherents of a recognised Faith other than Christian and who wish their child to attend a Church of England school."

rogueantimatter · 31/01/2016 11:59

That seems fair.

AlanPacino · 31/01/2016 12:08

How so?

JassyRadlett · 31/01/2016 12:10

That seems fair

Why? Are the children of atheists worth less?

JassyRadlett · 31/01/2016 12:16

perception that faith congregations are disproportionately middle class

It's not a perception- it's fact based on independent studies and work done by the churches themselves.

rogueantimatter · 31/01/2016 12:33

That's interesting about the demographic of faith congregations. Thank you. Do 'churches' include non-Christian centres of worship?

Are the children of atheists worth less? Of course not. Everyone is entitled to the best education they can geographically access. Perhaps faith schools should agree to take children on a first come first served basis, should extend an open, generous hand to anyone who wants their children to be educated there. Wouldn't religious parents feel justifiably aggrieved if their children didn't get in to a faith school because a middle-class organised atheist parent had beaten them to it though?