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Original poster

What I don't understand about prayer

100 replies

OrderofWork · 18/09/2015 22:20

I am an occasional church goer with a wavering faith and limited understanding.

Last Sunday, in church, we were asked to pray for the refugees. Obviously, they are in desperate need of help. The bit I don't understand is why I (we) need to tell God that. Surely an almighty God can see it already. I understand bringing an ill member of the congregation to God in prayer, but how can he have missed this one?

OP posts:

lorelei9 · 18/09/2015 22:22

Are you sure you're not an atheist?
That's not a joke btw.

Original poster

OrderofWork · 18/09/2015 22:24

No, I'm not. I generally think there's "something" in it, but admit I don't understand this almighty God who needs to be told about the suffering of his people.

OP posts:

goblinhat · 18/09/2015 22:32

If he exists then he does know, but obviously thinks it's OK to have babies tear gassed or sleep on the road. I have been told it's all part of God's plan.

Either he is unable to do anything about it ( in which case he isn't omnipotent after all) or he chooses to sit back and let it happen ( in which case he is plain malicious).

So inept or evil.

Or perhaps doesn't exist at all.
I know which one I'm plumping for.

Original poster

OrderofWork · 18/09/2015 22:34

Of course goblin, that's one view.

I'm interested to know why people who do believe think it's necessary to bring these things in prayer.

OP posts:

goblinhat · 18/09/2015 22:38

There is no evidence to show that prayer works. Sick people don't die less when they have been prayed for.

Original poster

OrderofWork · 18/09/2015 22:42

I don't know if that's true, I think I have seen studies showing that prayer may work although of course whether it has actual effect or works like a placebo, who knows (although that might have been in a film!).

As I said, what I'm after is an explanation of why I was asked to pray for those poor people. Why the minister, as a believer, thinks it's necessary and doesn't think God just knows who needs his help.

OP posts:

lorelei9 · 18/09/2015 22:43

Church going friends would tell me it's more about sharing thoughts with god.

My definition of god would be that it would need to be an all powerful and all good force.

So then that leads me to Epicurus
carm.org/epicurus-god-willing-to-prevent-evil

And therefore I'm an atheist but I do know of atheists who have a belief in some kind of power or powers. The key thing that they don't believe is that specific all powerful all good definition IYSWIM. A belief in "something" doesn't make you a theist, in my view.

vdbfamily · 18/09/2015 23:37

Isn't it sad when someone asks on MN for some advice re prayer and the only responses are from people whose only interest seems to be to convince the OP that her beliefs are rubbish and so why not just become an atheist. It would really be better not to comment and to respect the fact that OP has made it clear that she is wanting a believer to help her understanding rather than a bunch of atheists to tell her she is wrong.
There are lots of different ways of praying for lots of different things. Christians believe we are Gods hands and feet.We go where God wants us and do the things he wants us to do. For me, when I pray for world situations or for poorly friends or for difficult situations, I am prompted to do something about it. How can I personally make a difference to the situation. Sometimes in the discipline and quietness of prayer, I feel prompted to give (time/money) or to visit someone or to change something I have been doing,or to speak to someone to put something right.
I saw a great cartoon on FB recently where 2 people were having a conversation and one said to the other, 'I really want to ask God why he does nothing about the poverty, suffering and sadness in the world' The friend replies 'Well why don't you ask him then?' to which the person responds 'well I'm afraid he might ask me the same question' !!
That is so true and I personally think that praying about the world crises does help in lots of ways.
Another reason to pray is that many displaced people around the world are actually Christian brothers and sisters. They are part of your family. I have had occasions in my life which have been difficult and have known and sensed that friends and family were praying for me. This knowledge and my faith has carried me through those times.I have tangibly sensed the prayer support in a way that I can't explain.
Another reason to pray is that rather like talking to our friends,it builds our relationship with God,and the closer we get to him the more he can use us. There are many many Christians who have through prayer felt called to go and physically help out in disaster situations. Many involved in co-ordinating relief efforts and giving sacrificially of their time and money.
God does not NEED us to tell Him what is going on but he loves to spend time with us and he loves us to care for each other and our world and he loves us to listen to what he needs us to do for him to make the world a better place.

FifteenFortyNine · 18/09/2015 23:45

I thought praying is a conversation with god with the objective of getting some guidance. So, more like 'Hey, this has been on my mind lately, give me wisdom and strength to help in a meaningful way. Not 'Sort it out mate, ta-ra'

lorelei9 · 19/09/2015 00:04

Vdbfamily, I did genuinely think the OP might be leaning that way, she mentions a wavering faith.

I also didn't think the OP asked for guidance on praying, she asked a fundamental question about the act of prayer, on a board entitled philosophy and religion.

In my second reply, I said what my church going friends would say, we talk about this sort of thing amicably. I explained my thoughts on theism and how they relate to the OP.

Some people do find atheism in much the same way as people find religion. You never know where exploratory questions will lead which is partly why it's good to ask them and for people to engage with them from many angles.

I thought it reasonable to suggest that thinking about theism and atheism may be of interest, given the very fundamental question which has the whole omnipotent issue as part of it.

BigDorrit · 19/09/2015 00:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lorelei9 · 19/09/2015 00:09

PS that cartoon sounds bizarre. My mother is religious and she just commented the other day on philanthropy and atheism (she's just heard about many well known being atheists I think).

I do my food bank drop via the atheist group (I don't have a car). I have had a devout Christian colleague ask me why we do it but I think I whinged about that on here already so I'll spare you a rerun!

BackforGood · 19/09/2015 00:10

Excellent post vdb
I also like the way you've put it Fifteen.
I see prayer as more like that... when you talk to a friend and what it really does is sort things out in your own mind / focuses your mind on if there is a way you can help.
Oh, and I've been in a situation where I know a lot of people were praying for me, and I felt it helped me hugely. No, I don't expect a miraculous 'cure' from God. No, I don't believe in a 'direct response' to an individual and specific request, but I do think it helps me, and, quite frankly, that matters a lot to me.

lorelei9 · 19/09/2015 00:11

PPS VDB, how you feel about your non Christian brothers and sisters?

Original poster

OrderofWork · 19/09/2015 00:17

BigDorrit. One study found prayer had no effect on a specific set of circumstances.

Another study found it did help

Has there ever been a study (on anything) that couldn't be contradicted by another?

Thanks to those who've tried to help.

OP posts:

ThatsNotMyRabbit · 19/09/2015 00:46

There have also been studies that showed that out of a random group, more people died who had been prayed for.

Original poster

OrderofWork · 19/09/2015 00:54

Studies or a study ThatsNotMyRabbit? And of course there have.

OP posts:

BigDorrit · 19/09/2015 01:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

OrderofWork · 19/09/2015 01:11

That's not what I said at all BigDorrit. It was your assertion about "studies" that made me have a look what other studies might be out there.

My post was never about whether prayer "works", it was about why people who believe do it.

OP posts:

BigDorrit · 19/09/2015 01:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nc19999992 · 19/09/2015 06:59

I go to church weekly, and have for about 2 years. When I started going I think I wanted to believe, instead of actually believing.
However, in the past few months, when praying/ after praying il have something on my mind that if I do would help a situation.

I had been praying about those in poverty in January after I'd had my birthday and been spoilt, and loads of adverts for the local food bank needing volunteers was in my Facebook feed. I could have ignored it, and carried on with my life, but decided to follow it and have made some great friends there And really feel like I'm making a difference. I've been involved in a massive charity event for the refugees to raise money and am supporting a very old friend through getting clean from drink and drugs.

To me, prayer is asking what we can do to help the situation. I like to think that God has a massive list of things, and that if everything on the list was given out and completed then the situation would be resolved. The difficulty is that I'm sure there have been thousands of messages from God that I've ignored, or decided wasn't in my plans..

VulcanWoman · 19/09/2015 07:17

I think it gives some people comfort to pray when there is nothing else that can be done.

icklekid · 19/09/2015 07:25

Yes God does know without our prayers. There are a few reasons why I pray. Here are some verses to help explain

Ephesians 3:20Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,

God wants to use us- by praying we are lifting up to God what is on our heart and he will answer our prayer. He may bring help and safety directly to those in need or he might call us to give our time/money to help others who are there to bring about that help.

Ephesians 6:18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people

God tells us to pray for his people. He tells us to pray about anything big or small, personal or affecting those far away.

Philippians 4:6Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

I pray because it brings me peace. It is very natural to talk about the things that worry us. Praying is sometimes about me lifting these things to God and me letting go of control of them. Trusting them into God's hands.

goblinhat · 19/09/2015 07:37

Another reason to pray is that many displaced people around the world are actually Christian brothers and sisters. They are part of your family.

vb- are your fellow christians worth praying for more than non-christians?

Narp · 19/09/2015 07:41

I'm an atheist

I agree with goblin about God

But I don't think you need to think of it as praying to God. I think you could think of it as holding someone else in your thoughts and possibly doing something about it as a result. Therefore, no bad thing.

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