Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Original poster

What I don't understand about prayer

100 replies

OrderofWork · 18/09/2015 22:20

I am an occasional church goer with a wavering faith and limited understanding.

Last Sunday, in church, we were asked to pray for the refugees. Obviously, they are in desperate need of help. The bit I don't understand is why I (we) need to tell God that. Surely an almighty God can see it already. I understand bringing an ill member of the congregation to God in prayer, but how can he have missed this one?

OP posts:
Narp · 19/09/2015 07:43

In other words, I think praying and worshipping are maybe ways to get closer to yourself, or to other people.

FriendofBill · 19/09/2015 07:48

Goblin- we pray for everyone, remembering those who are persecuted for their beliefs.

The Bible tells us to

FriendofBill · 19/09/2015 07:51

Gah!

Love one another.

It can be difficult to love everyone, and the scripture helps keep us in the right track.

Of course, some people are more special to me than others, it's a human trait to have favourites.
But not a Godly one. He loves us all equally, and made us as such.

goblinhat · 19/09/2015 07:58

So why did vb need to mention that some are christian- and therefore particularly worthy of prayer?

Do all christians feel that way- as you say you do too.

Is it ungodly? I read that the only way to salvation is through acceptance of jesus.

So god too clearly favours his own. If he was such a benevolent god he would let everyone onto his kingdom, heathens, those of other faith too.

Why the need to be a christian to get a Golden Ticket?

SarfEast1cated · 19/09/2015 07:58

I've never really thought of god as a man with a white beard who decides if we suffer or not, I think of 'him' more as the personification of a loving energy (I know it sounds weird). When you pray you are adding your own loving energy to that mix. I don't think what brand of religion matters, I think it's all the same god. When you pray for refugees for instance, you are sending your positive and loving thoughts out to them in the hope that it helps.

goblinhat · 19/09/2015 08:00

narp- I agree, and I see that prayer can be useful in focussing our thoughts, like a meditation.

But not as an emergency hotline to a deity.

FriendofBill · 19/09/2015 08:07

Because (for me) it is easier to love a Christian. Because they are in our family.
Like you love your children more than you live mine.

We have to be very free and trust God wholly to put others welfare as important as our own, or before ourselves as we are told to.

I don't claim perfection.
Though if we all 'do unto others' there would be heaven on earth.

One by one, this is what we are meant to be bringing, heaven on earth, and prayer is part of our toolkit. It gets us ready for the spiritual attacks we face in our daily lives, amongst other things.

BoskyCat · 19/09/2015 08:07

I'm an atheist but I do kind of sometimes "pray" - whether it's for something everyday like a parking space, or because I've seen something awful on the news and I'm just willing that poor person to survive, or something like that. I go "oh please please let X happen" in my mind and I don't know who I'm talking to. So I suppose I think prayer is really about focusing your thoughts and processing your wishes/longings by concentrating on them consciously. If religious people do that in a group or congregation, and feel they are doing it to someone who is listening, it must be even more effective at doing that.

Most sensible people, even if religious, can't deny that god doesn't answer everyone's wishes to prevent suffering, and that praying doesn't keep planes in the air or save people from cancer etc. Science does that, if it is done. Yet praying still does something for people – maybe just makes them feel they are involved and care, and have expressed that.

BoskyCat · 19/09/2015 08:10

If you are a christian, you probably appreciate a bunch of your fellow Christians praying for you, it's very caring and inclusive. When you're an atheist, people saying that to you can feel patronising and excluding (though if it's meant kindly, I accept it graciously IYSWIM). I did have a halls-mate at university who was a very doctrinaire born-again Christian and he was always praying for me because I couldnt see the light, it was annoying.

FriendofBill · 19/09/2015 08:11

You are the light!

SarfEast1cated · 19/09/2015 08:14

I can almost feel Christians on this thread distancing themselves from that comment FOB

SarfEast1cated · 19/09/2015 08:16

it is easier to love a Christian this comment

BoskyCat · 19/09/2015 08:19

Goblin I agree with you about the rational nonsensicalness of God. If everything Christians believe is true, God does not come across as a nice person at all. I always wonder why can't religions just be about the god/gods loving everyone, and wanting us to just be generally kind and have a nice time, instead of making all kinds of petty requirements to do with sex, food, specifics of what you have to believe about who was brutally tortured and why 2000 years ago etc.

But I think it's possible to see prayer as a separate thing from all of that, and being about something actually quite real and human, communication and shared feelings about what we wish would happen.

goblinhat · 19/09/2015 08:20

FOB

It gets us ready for the spiritual attacks we face in our daily lives

I feel sorry for you if you feel under constant attack.

Reminds me of the far right in the USA who feel "under attack" by sex outside marriage and homosexuality.

WhatWouldLeslieKnopeDo · 19/09/2015 08:22

I'm a Catholic, sort of. Prayer is one of the things I really struggle with. I do pray for people, both individuals and for bigger issues. I like to think of it more as a sort of meditation on the issue, as others have said, helping to get clarity and think about what I can do. I also agree with Narp about getting closer to yourself/others. It can also be a way to bring someone comfort at a time when there's nothing practical to be done. I don't believe that it will make any difference to them, even though I desperately wish it would, but I know it means a lot to some people.

I do have issue with the idea that God would give someone something just because they prayed for it, when others are just as deserving or in need, but don't believe or don't pray in the "right" way. I also don't like the idea that someone would be healed because enough people prayed for them. That seems so utterly unfair on those who don't know as many people or are not religious.

I think it is important to question aspects of your faith and reflect on things every once in a while. It doesn't mean you are necessarily atheist, though of course there's nothing wrong with that. I too believe in "something", but I'm still working out what.

I think the minister is assuming God knows, but is saying that you all care and asking Him to help. Not that that really makes any more sense than Him not knowing. I tend to think of God not as some kind of heavenly puppeteer, but as a power that is in all of us. So I suppose praying might remind us what is going on and encourage us to do something.

Sorry, that was a pretty pointless reply Blush

FriendofBill · 19/09/2015 08:22

The light is your conciousness.
The consciousness we have to deny in order to witness/condone the suffering of others. And to be unkind and put others down as you just have.

This is what I love about my fellow believers. Their encouragement. I pray that we all feel the encouragement of the spirit today.

goblinhat · 19/09/2015 08:23

bosky- I agree, I actually think prayer and witchcraft ( the same things) can bring about personal change, which in turn can influence others.
We may be a little more motivated, open to the ideas of others, find a creative spark, but it's not due to a deity.
It's about the abilities we already have, the ideas that we can develop, but are hidden in the every day chatter and clutter of our busy lives.

FriendofBill · 19/09/2015 08:24

I don't feel under constant attack. But have just had an attack for my beliefs.
This is what I was talking about.
And why I go to church/meet other believers.

goblinhat · 19/09/2015 08:25

The consciousness we have to deny in order to witness/condone the suffering of others

So gad must be pretty good ad denying this light.
As he is all- seeing he must witness the pain, hunger and suffering on a constant basis.

Yet he chooses to do nothing?

Too busy?

goblinhat · 19/09/2015 08:27

But have just had an attack for my beliefs.

So this is a "spiritual attack"? I was assuming something more malevolent, like the old trickster trying to fool you.

FriendofBill · 19/09/2015 08:35

God is working in me, in my consciousness...creating endlessly. Not doing nothing, just not doing what you think God should do.

Pure conciousness does not perceive good/bad. In the light of consciousness, nothing else can exist.
It's difficult to explain and comprehend, and much easier in a group who are all seeking and willing to try and grasp what God is, as opposed to being on an Internet forum with someone who is seeking to disprove or go the other way.
Without faith the conversation can't be had, much less the conversion!

Fauchelevent · 19/09/2015 08:37

I'm an atheist who thankfully got over my need to prove all religious people wrong to feel superior, and now I'm really into understanding the whole process.

Some of the earlier posts are really enlightening. I really never understood prayer but now I guess it sometimes helps believers clarify their thoughts. Kind of more efficient than my method of staying up stressing till 4am!

goblinhat · 19/09/2015 08:51

Without faith the conversation can't be had

Hmm
FriendofBill · 19/09/2015 08:53

Eh?
How can we discuss what you don't think exists?

AmazeMe · 19/09/2015 09:03

It's a perfectly valid question, OP. I can only be relieved that shedding religious belief in adulthood means that I no longer have to grapple with the mental gymnastics involved in trying to believe in a beneficent, omnipotent God who nonetheless requires continual worship and reminding of the appalling suffering of his creation.

Swipe left for the next trending thread