How can I help religious DD?

[IsabellaofFrance]

My DD is 6.

She has become increasingly more religious in the last year. She attends Rainbows and Sunday School (at her request) and she loves both.

I think she understands that beliefs are individual and that not everyone believes the things she does, and she is happy to share her own beliefs. She has started to get interested in Dinosaurs and Space, and became really upset when learning about the creation of the universe as it doesn't fit with what she believes.

DH is Atheist, I am Christian but only attend Church semi-regularly and I just don't know how to handle it. I can't answer the questions she has without upsetting her. She is bright and articulate so its not explaining it on a level that is the problem, its knowing what to say.

cape creationism should be being taught as a "possible theory" - it's utter fantasy.

Inflation theory should be taught as a "possible theory" for the creation of our universe

For an atheist, it is no different to if Hindu or Mormon dogma, or the principles of astrology, or witchcraft and magic spells, were taught to our DC as fact. They are just the same as Christian dogma. None of it is fact, all of it is what people personally choose to believe based on no actual verifiable evidence. I have a huge problem with any child being told evidence-free beliefs, which are not generally agreed on, as fact in a setting where they are supposed to be learning actual facts.

I am angry about it, I think it's wrong and backward. Anyone can follow a religion in their spare time if they choose. There's absolutely no need to bother and confuse children with dogma when they are supposed to be learning useful stuff. If their parents really want to teach them to follow a religion, they can do it at home.

I'd be pissed off if Christianity was taught at schools as fact. It's not the place. Church/mosque/whatever is the place.

I would accept my kids being exposed to eg visiting religious groups but not if they present their beliefs as facts.

But it is being taught as fact. When my DD was 6 she was taught the tale of Noah's ark and the flood.
She thought it was a history lesson, it took me years to convince her otherwise.

My kids are taught to sing songs of worship such as " Jesus is my Superhero"- what is all that about?

Blatant indoctrination.

Springy, whilst by instinct I agree with you, I do think that if you choose to send your children to a religious school knowingly, then you buy in to its ethos etc.

Goblin, ah. Yup. I am always reminded of that wonderful moment in the Big Bang Theory when Sheldon realises that if he doesn't go back to CalTech he will have to teach creationism in Texas... And his clever albeit fundamentalist mother who does not want him back permanently has worked that out too...

Capewrath a lot of these issues come up when children are comparatively young and not yet really being taught discrete subjects like science. It's more that if you happen to send your children to a school where the head is religious and picks religious teachers and brings in religious people to talk at assemblies etc then their beliefs get incorporated into lessons. the issue being that they get presented as fact by authority figures.

It's difficult for parents to even know a lot of this is even happening. It certainly came as a surprise to us when dd came home suddenly a believer. We deliberately chose not to send our children to the religious schools in our area and assumed that the community school would be relatively secular, as many just go along the 'thought for the day' type approach instead. When the head changed all the religion seemed to disappear very quickly.

cape sending your kids to a faith school may not be a "choice" it might be your only school nearby or the state school you get allocated to. This is what's so wrong with the state funding religious schools.

Goblin, was she at denominational school? Because otherwise she should be singing Buddha is my superhero, Dawkins is my superhero as well?

On the flood, we went through all of that too, helped by archaeology etc. yes, big flood in Mesopotamia. Noah ?no.

cape- this is a state non-denominational school.

Hermione, yes I do see that, just that round me the religious schools are so massively oversubscribed you have to turn up to every mass or whatever, even if you are next door to the church.

Bosky, it is possible to be an Athiest and believe in astrology, witchcraft and/or magic spells.

I'm with you goblin

bloody hell!

Though I wouldn't say to my kids 'this is rubbish/nonsense/fairytales', I would say it is what some people believe. I would, yes, encourage my kids to be respectful of others beliefs as they are usually deeply held. Though I wouldn't be able to shut up about my difficulties with eg religious practice that necessitates women are covered head to foot, or 'unclean' at various points. Age-appropriately I would talk about religion, cultural religion, allegory etc ie put it in historical/cultural/sociological/psychological context.

I generally don't think God needs a PR team tbh. He can speak for himself - he would have to, or he'd be reliant on religious institutions to give a fair representation of him. Which would be pretty crap, all in.

*'him'

Faith school, yes, to be expected. But not non-domination state school NO

Bosky, it is possible to be an Athiest and believe in astrology, witchcraft and/or magic spells.

I suppose so.

I'll revise atheist to "rationalist empricist".

But even non denominational schools have a legal obligation " to lead active worship....christian in nature"

This gives teachers and heads free remit to deliver as much indoctrination as they wish in schools.

I do think some of you are very pessimistic about the level of conversation you can have with a 6 y/o. Just for example, I think it's perfectly possible to - for example - tell the stone soup story, then relate it to the biblical story of the loaves and the fishes, talk about how the bible was written many years after the events described, that sort of thing.

FWIW dd's primary school was very religious (though not a 'church school'), yet all her classmates were convinced atheists by year 6. I have a suspicion that school religion acts rather like vaccinations; a little bit of it early on immunises the children against later strong conviction.

At the least, comparing the US (secular schools - very religious country) with the UK (religion compulsory in schools - extremely secular country) would suggest school religion doesn't do much harm . . .

This was the problem in eg ultra-fundamentalist Muslim schools recently - in Birmingham, was it? I'm not sure where the law is with that but I'm guessing laws have been rushed through; under which issues with religious indoctrination in schools could be addressed (iiwy)

Interesting debate.

I agree with those saying to tell her people believe different things. Even within Christianity there is disagreement.

I was raised rc was then atheist now pagan. Went to faith primary and non denominational high school but its a religious area (predominantly Christian, where even the protestants are fairly strict) so high school still had religious assemblies, hymns etc. I agree religion should be taught ABOUT in schools and not just taught. Ime as a mother I'm disappointed that still so little is taught of non abrahamic religions, atheism and agnosticism.

Interesting to see that several of the atheist posters are being as dogmatic and insistent that their opinion/belief is correct as some religious posters. It's not a board I usually come onto.

I'm also reminded that even science has changed its 'beliefs' over the years. Makes me think of phoebe in friends.

"Wasn't there a time when the brightest minds in the world believed that the world was flat? And, up until like what, 50 years ago, you all thought the atom was the smallest thing, until you split it open, and this like, whole mess of crap came out."

There's also Copernicus and the big bang theory. Wrt bbt it is still regarded as just a theory primarily iirc because even the greatest scientific minds in the world can't agree on exactly how they think it happened.

We learn new things and ideas all the time. Surely open mindedness and tolerance is a better direction?

But even non denominational schools have a legal obligation " to lead active worship....christian in nature"

Really?? Are you sure?

From what I can gather, all religions are presented respectfully, factually, in schools - except Christianity. Big swing away from long-established cultural Christianity perhaps? Understandable. Though I'd have to think baby/bathwater - but I would.

"Christian worship has been compulsory in our state schools since 1944. The law requires all schools, even non-faith schools, to hold an act of collective worship every day, which must be 'broadly Christian' in character."

More here:

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281929/Collective_worship_in_schools.pdf

www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2014/07/why-the-time-has-come-to-end-compulsory-worship-in-schools

humanism.org.uk/campaigns/schools-and-education/collective-worship/

Look, children have spiritual needs. Most humans in most times and places have a need for a sense of connection to the divine, whatever words and concepts they wrap around it. I'm sorry that makes some people here angry, but I think the OP was trying to work out how best to meet her daughter's needs.

Yes, lots of people have contradictory beliefs about all sorts of things and relate them to religion. So what? Jumping up and down with your fingers in your ears shouting all religion is rubbish la-la-la is not a way to engage with your child's spiritual development.

David Cameron is our PM after all...

Onus on Christianity probably an attempt to present a united religious identity (in direct contrast to the fundamentalist Muslim threat) linked directly to historic British identity - what with the blurred British 'identity' that was doing the rounds.

Very surprised to hear this is going on in schools and is directly sanctioned, though. Certainly wasnt like that when my kids were at school. Under (Christian) Blair.

Rational empiricist means something very different to atheist.

Well, it depends why you are an atheist. I'm an atheist because I don't like to believe stuff there's no evidence for, so for me religion, astrology and witchcraft are much of a muchness.

Also witchcraft is a religion, generally speaking as it's practised today.

Atheist means a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in a god or gods.

That's it. It is possible to be an atheist witch as not all witches believe in gods. It is even possible to be a religious atheist, there are atheist Budhists and members of church congregations.

Similarly not all atheists are so because they "don't like to believe stuff there's no evidence for". Some don't believe because they just don't believe. Some believe in horoscopes, others believe in ghosts / amber beads / £400 face creams and loads of other stuff I'm sure you don't believe in.

The word atheist has a meaning and it isn't "somebody who has the exact same beliefs as Bosky.