How can I help religious DD?

[IsabellaofFrance]

My DD is 6.

She has become increasingly more religious in the last year. She attends Rainbows and Sunday School (at her request) and she loves both.

I think she understands that beliefs are individual and that not everyone believes the things she does, and she is happy to share her own beliefs. She has started to get interested in Dinosaurs and Space, and became really upset when learning about the creation of the universe as it doesn't fit with what she believes.

DH is Atheist, I am Christian but only attend Church semi-regularly and I just don't know how to handle it. I can't answer the questions she has without upsetting her. She is bright and articulate so its not explaining it on a level that is the problem, its knowing what to say.

I will continue to comment on religious boards- religion affects us all whether or not we believe in a god.

Precisely, our children have to attend acts of collective worship every day which are broadly christian in nature which appalls me. Non theists have every right to join the debate. It isn't disrespectful to use facts to back that up surely? As BigDorrit said, there is no evidence that Jesus existed at all, it's okay to say that because it is simply stating a fact. So long as christianity is being forced on our children non theists have a right to be angry.

lumpy yup. 100% x

Exactly lumpy.

There was no debate. Just sneering and jeering.

Do please comment on these boards with constructive points, as many on this thread have who are not believers. It's all part of a valuable debate. Chipping in with aggressive sneers is not part of a valuable debate.

As I said in a previous post op that was deleted: ime it is very common for kids to go through a religious phase at this age. imo it is best to present how different people believe - some people believe this/some people believe that - until the phase passes, which is usually does naturally.

IME believers tend to class you pointing out that their belief in a Judaic -Christian God is lacking any evidence and is no more credible than fairies or the Loch Ness monster as sneering and jeering. But it isn't, it's stating fact.

Hermione, I'm sure you know what you are talking about, so perhaps you'd like to explain how you know there is no evidence for the existence of God?

Ah, we are back to proving a negative.

There is no evidence, nothing that can only be explained by an all knowing, all powerful super being.

If you insist there is something unbelievably unlikely, it is up to you to point to the evidence and make your case, not for me to prove the absence of it - Bertrand Russell's teapot orbiting the earth argument.

I'm sure you know this, but explanation and evidence are not the same thing. 'There is no evidence for God' and 'there is nothing that can only be explained by the existence of God' are completely different kinds of statements, which bear on completely different areas of knowledge.

And I'm sure you can think for yourself, so perhaps you can say why it is that you think there is no evidence for God?

Which God???

Okaaaay, this is getting a bit weird and I feel like you're talking to me like a 5 year old with all the "think for yourself" crap. One last time - I think there is no evidence for god.......because there is no evidence for god. Just like there is no evidence for fairies at the bottom of my garden or for Russell's teapot.

This isn't about perception and "is what I think of as red the same concept you have in your head when you think about red".

I didn't mean to treat you like a five-year old, and I'm sorry if you felt that I did. I was trying to stress that I was addressing you as an intelligent person able to think for and to explain your own ideas.

So, why do you think there is no evidence for God? Obviously, the flying teapot is something that Bertrand Russell made up, and the fairies in Cottingley Glen were made up by two teenage girls. There is evidence that these things were invented.

But do you really know there is no evidence for God?

... and if so, how?

It's not about thinking there is no evidence, or believing there is no evidence. More about seeing no evidence. All the usual things like bad things happening to good people, proliferation of beliefs among different people etc etc. But more fundamentally about looking around at the world and seeing no real space for god/s. No need and no reason to believe.

I was brought up in faith and did believe as a child. Then I grew up and realised it was all made up, that humankind seems to feel a need to create myths to explain things that now (generally) have explanations that don't require supernatural beliefs. I find the myths very interesting, but nothing more than that.

When I interact with my religious relatives, or when on very rare occasion I go to church I feel completely disassociated, it's all just a bit weird. Whether that's my mother describing bible stories as if she had been there in person, or my BIL telling me that god spoke to him. The onus is surely on the people with the strange beliefs to explain themselves, not the bemused onlooker to say why they don't subscribe to the beliefs.

Well, Josephus refers to followers if someone called Jesus afair. I have never said that it is indisputable that eg the miracles happened or that he/He was divine. As someone once said about Shakespeare, if he didn't write the plays then some other bloke did.

And I don't know about other 6 year olds, but my v ordinary one and his mates were perfectly able to distinguish between fact, fancy, and don't know.

It's still more than possible that an historical teacher called Jesus or some such name lived around then, with a following. Why are you disputing that?

There may indeed be some later Christian interpolation in some of the Josephus passages, tho possibly less than it was at one time thought. But what does that does it add to your argument ? Nothing, it seems to me. At the very least there appears to have been a bloke who thought that there was too much worry about the then practice of Judaism rather than getting back to the principles of how you should behave to your neighbour. Understandably the establishment found this chap irritating.

And there's no need to be rude, either.

Nooks, I'd find that v woo too. And have come across it. My DM once had to reconcile two people who were both insisting that the Holy Spirit was telling them stuff, except it was diametrically opposed.... But I also find the same, pretty much, in pagan friends, those who believe their horoscopes, go to tarot , ley lines etc. and not all Christians are like that. There is a confusion between fundamentalist Christianity and non, as there is re Islam and indeed the ultra Orthodox Judaism and non.

Well, there appear to have been a) a teacher who caused problems and had followers, and b) some chaps called Jesus, who may or may not have had siblings, and who might or might not be the first chap.

Let's call a ) Terry. He was a pain to the establishment. Something happened to him. Maybe he just died normally. But it's possible that some of his friends told stories about him, true or false, we don't know.

Now I don't have a problem explaining quite a lot of that in simple words to a six year old. I can say, of course, that his name was Terry, or we don't know his name, or shortcut it and refer to Terry as Jesus. I have in fact explained all of that save the he may not have been called Terry/Jesus to dc. He completely got it.

I found it far easier explaining this than whether the moon landing or the pictures of it were fake !

And yes, it is possible that there wasn't an actual person I agree, but perhaps I should have said than there appears to have been a teacher, and if not there was some sort of catalyst. Because something occurred to create this splinter group that turned into Christianity

I've said this before on another forum. I believe there was a man called Jesus (or more likely Yeshua) who may have been a magician of some sort that got very lucky and got a few tricks right, became a kind of celebrity for that era....fast forward 2000 years and through a system of Chinese whispers and hearsay you get Jesus, son of god, miracle worker. I expect the same in thousands of years for harry potter or dynamo tbh

Oh yes, I don't think that sort of absolute belief is particularly unique to Christians, and in fact my BIL is the only person I know who talks (to me anyway) in such a matter of fact way about God speaking to him. Thing is I love my BIL very much, he's a lovely chap and apart from his beliefs is very grounded and sensible. It just jars because to me it's a delusion, but to him it is at the very core of his life.

"...fast forward 2000 years and through a system of Chinese whispers and hearsay you get Jesus, son of god, miracle worker."

Sorry but you have to only got at most 200 years, before "whatever" happened was making a big fuss in the Roman world. Which was alos hardly a primitive culture.

I don't mind debate with "atheists" I do object to people who tell me "its all made up" with no arguments, just as much as I object to people who say "the world was made in 7 days because the bible says that".

Every Christian school I know teaches evolution and science. Religion and science are not incompatible. I don't understand where all these creationists are hiding tbh. As a RC, I have never encountered them in rl. They only seem to creep out of the woodwork on Mumsnet!

And as usual only on Mumsnet (and not rl) is it fine to mock other people's belief systems.

But, to answer the op, I don't think it is necessary to upset your dd. (Perhaps she is upset because the teaching she is receiving is not very sophisticated or nuanced or that she is a bit ahead of the rest of the class as she sounds v bright and the teaching doesn't take account of that .)

Suggest you can affirm the fact the world is an amazing place, as are the planets, space, the universe and science is incredible as etc etc, and that some people believe that God created the earth and others (like her Dad) don't. And that she is free to believe what she wants, that we should all respect different beliefs (previous posters please note ) and that her beliefs may or may not change as she grows up.

If she asks more questions you could explain that stories are used in the Bible to illustrate certain aspects of life and creation and that they are not necessarily literal. But that doesn't stop the world being an amazing place and something that we should look after.

Be honest and tell her that theological questions are some of the most amazing and important questions we can ask. Why are we here on earth? Who or what created us? What is our purpose? Where do we go when we die? Is the universe infinite?

I personally think it is fine to tell her that no-one knows for sure, but some people have a religious faith that explains these questions and some people don't.

You could say that some people believe that God can be something as simple as love between people and that everyone has a different viewpoint. And that is what makes the world so great!

Good luck!