How can I help religious DD?

[IsabellaofFrance]

My DD is 6.

She has become increasingly more religious in the last year. She attends Rainbows and Sunday School (at her request) and she loves both.

I think she understands that beliefs are individual and that not everyone believes the things she does, and she is happy to share her own beliefs. She has started to get interested in Dinosaurs and Space, and became really upset when learning about the creation of the universe as it doesn't fit with what she believes.

DH is Atheist, I am Christian but only attend Church semi-regularly and I just don't know how to handle it. I can't answer the questions she has without upsetting her. She is bright and articulate so its not explaining it on a level that is the problem, its knowing what to say.

nooka- I can understand that. My sister is deeply religious, her belief underpins her life. She is extremely fundamental in her beliefs, takes the bible very literally. She is an intelligent woman, and also a science teacher. She believes the Earth is 4000 years old.
She teaches creationism in her science class at school.

I shudder.

Every Christian school I know teaches evolution and science

x post- the school that my sister works in teaches creationism in science classes, evolution is mentioned, but presented as a flawed theory.

but surely that must be pretty unusual nowadays Goblinhat

Creationism isn't taught in mainstream RC schools to my knowledge (well none that any of us and our dc have attended anyway)

It is a growing trend in the USA standclear.

standclear- how do you decide which bits of the bible are literal?

oh yes, well that explains it - all highly dubious in my view - just totally wierd

as I said before, I don't think religious beliefs and science (including scientific theories about how the world was created) are in the least bit incompatible

goblinhat I don't - I rarely read the Old Testament and in the New Testament, parable, metaphor and allegory do not negate the basic message

satndclear- I think they are incompatible.

The theory of evolution becomes a nonsense if you think there is some guiding hand behind it.

If animals don't have souls at what point in human evolution did god put the soul into us?
Some random Tuesday?

Did god steer evolution in order to create homo sapien?
In which case it ceases to be evolution. At a molecular level evolution functions by chance, by randomness. If you suggest that god is calling the shots, then that isn't evolution.

standclear- so none of it is literal then?

IME, in a state, non-faith primary school, there is a requirement to have an "act of worship" and for it to be predominantly Christian. This is open to a lot of interpretation, some schools are very secular and cover it minimally along with other religious education info in a matter-of-fact way.

Others, especially those with links to a church (yes, even though they are supposed to be non-faith schools! Grrr) will use it as an excuse for a bit of fire and brimstone, getting in clergy to do preachy assemblies etc.

It also means an individual class teacher, if they happen to be very religious, will be able to spout that in the classroom and it's seen as OK – even though it's extremely confusing IMO, to talk about matters of faith as if they are fact, alongside teaching stuff that is actually fact (like 2+2 or what dinosaurs were) , to small children who have problems gasping that distinction. (Well, I guess that's how religions continue - indoctrination while young.)

My DS was taught about the crucifixion story in gruesome detail, in year 1 aged 5. He was horrified and terribly upset for weeks. Imagine the content of that story had been in a computer game - no one would think it suitable for 5yos. Yet his class teacher was free to do that, and teach it as fact. In a non-faith school.

So something like this may be going on at school, especially if she has a religious class teacher, and of course you may also get more of it at sunday school, depending on the type of church.

But as for what to do, she's very young and impressionable, and that will change. I'd stand back and say "yes that's nice love" a lot and act as if it's not a big deal. I'd only out my view if challenged, for example if my child told me I had to believe in god, I'd explain clearly why I don't. I'd be ready to answer any questions with calm, factual responses. "Some people think that, but most people don't." (Christians are less than 1/3 of the global population IIRC) "No one can really know if that's true, as it hasn't been proved." Etc.

I imagine she will grow out of it, and even if she never does, and becomes a bishop, that is her choice.

boskycat- sounds just like my kids ( non-faith) primary school.

The head is fervently religious, he actively selects staff members who are religious.
Local clergy are invited to give a sermon weekly at assembly.
The children pray in class, I have even seen a "table of creation" ( a nature table) set up in a classroom,
I too have sat through a horrific description of the crucifixion told to the school, many of the 5 years olds were sobbing in horror.

It is disgusting that this indoctrination is permitted by law.

goblin I agree it is horrendous and wrong. I don't think there's any place for a matter of personal belief to be taught as fact to anyone, especially not at school where you are supposed to learn actual information and a critical faculty. Teaching about religions, fine but not spouting dogma.

However having said all that I roll with it, and talk to my DC about it, and help them to understand what it is. I'd prefer them to develop some healthy suspicion about indoctrination and how to know it when you see it, than to try to protect them from it at all costs, and so make religion seem exciting and forbidden.

One thing I will say for our school is that when they have visits to church etc., they are stultifyingly boring and likely to put them off for life.

goblinhat As I recall even Einstein, not known for his religious beliefs (well of a personal God anyway) felt that the multitude of laws governing the universe pointed to some higher design.

But tbh, this or the literality of the bible (or not) is something that seems to bother you a lot more than it bothers me.

Most intelligent people accept that the gospels do not have a consistent narrative, were based on oral histories and were written between AD 60 to AD 100. However, for me personally, none of that diminishes their central message.

And I agree that most religious teaching is pretty woeful.

But nonetheless I think there is a great hunger for some sort of 'spiritual' (for want of an alternative expression) in young people

Schools should be addressing the big questions 'where do we come from?', 'what are we?' 'where are we going?', should we take responsibility just for ourselves and our families or do we have a wider collective responsibility to the rest of humanity and the planet we live on? Can fulfillment be found through material goods? What is our main purpose in life? What is morality? How does society deal with moral conflicts? The list is endless.

None of these questions have to be framed within a particular religious context but the potential solutions that both theists and atheists can offer could be explored.

It's interesting standclear, I kind of agree with you but I think one of the huge failings is not teaching science with that sense of spirituality and wonder. Science can answer those questions, or at least address them, and some of the explanations for how such beautiful and seemingly designed forms came about, for example, and mindblowing. But schools don't teach science like that, it's not joined up or "bigger picture" at all.

I got my child interested in Greek myths (Atticus 100 Greek myths is awesome) - she now believes in them instead! For some reason I'd prefer her to have lots of gods who are very human than one god who isn't very human at all.

standclear, but a lot of these topics are covered in school- my DS studies Religious, Moral and Philosophical education.

It would be wrong to use a religious slant though to wade through these topics.

Horrified to hear 5yo's are being taught unsparing detail about crucifixion. AFAIK my kids didn't get this but I'd be wanting to see what the law says about it. Basic facts, possibly, but not grisly detail. Even I haven't seen eg the Mel Gibson film and don't intend to. I get the gist. Deeply inapproriate that small kids are being subjected to this

I have been taken aback at the venom on this thread toward belief in God/believers/God and it has had quite an effect on me. I've been thinking about it, musing on possible reasons for it - and realised i am not at such a different place myself towards at least religion, or religious christian expression. I have major problems with it, currently and also, of course, historically. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say i loathe it and have an increasingly hard job fitting into anything that even vaguely resembles 'church'. I have sometimes dipped into this board but have been aghast at the plain barmyness of a lot of Christian perspectives on here. So I am not so far apart on pulsating with loathing on some of the same things (I speak for myself here).

I'm not cosying up to the atheists bcs of course the key difference is of course I am a believer in God and I am a Christian. However I genuinely feel the general accepted/historical expression of Christianity (ie the church?) simply isn't the same thing as, very little to do with, God.

So perhaps you loathers could separate out the components of what you loathe. All of it, yes, I get that - but each component is not necessarily equal. And, as I've detailed, we may share some common ground.

Goblin, which country are you in?

I live in the UK.

Why do you ask capewrath?

I haven't seen any venom springy, just people who are uncomfortable that other people's unproven beliefs are taught as facts to our children, and we have to untangle that at home.

Just because I've not seen creationism taught as science in primary, even in rc or cofe schools ( not seen any Jewish, Islamic or Pentecostal ones). Maybe mentioned as a theory, but that was far as it went. So was wondering if you were in the US.

Not being a creationist myself, I would be concerned if it were taught as more than a possible theory, as you will have gathered from my posts up thread.

Yes, people who are pissed off that fiction is being taught as fact. At my kids' school (not a faith school) an evangelical group are invited in monthly to indoctrinate the children and hector them if they don't bow their heads and pray.

springy, as a Christian, if other religions or deities were being presented as fact by trusted teachers and you had to explain at home that it's not what you believe wouldn't you be pissed off and frustrated?

Oh- cape- my sister lives abroad, and is a science teacher in a Baptist school.