How can I help religious DD?

[IsabellaofFrance]

My DD is 6.

She has become increasingly more religious in the last year. She attends Rainbows and Sunday School (at her request) and she loves both.

I think she understands that beliefs are individual and that not everyone believes the things she does, and she is happy to share her own beliefs. She has started to get interested in Dinosaurs and Space, and became really upset when learning about the creation of the universe as it doesn't fit with what she believes.

DH is Atheist, I am Christian but only attend Church semi-regularly and I just don't know how to handle it. I can't answer the questions she has without upsetting her. She is bright and articulate so its not explaining it on a level that is the problem, its knowing what to say.

Look, children have spiritual needs.
What evidence do you have for that? Most adults I know don't have any need for religion, children are no different.

Most humans in most times and places have a need for a sense of connection to the divine

Most people have sought understanding of their world. When thunder roars, when seasons change, when disease strikes, when a comet shoots through the sky it is understandable that a society with no scientific explanation may think there is a divine force.
We now understand so much more through scientific explanation, so we don't need to have a divine explanation.
It also suits the elite to use religion to control.

Religion is born out of fear, ignorance and the few with a lust for power.

Children have lots of needs but I don't think they have any spiritual needs whatsoever. Religion is largely an invention which is used to control people, the stories about Abraham were probably used to sort out bronze age land disputes. At the heart of all the Abrahamic religions is misogyny and homophobia. I'd rather my child was read stories from all round the world and developed a healthy imagination.

At the heart of all the Abrahamic religions is misogyny and homophobia.

Agreed.

What happens in 2000 years if everyone is a scientologist who worships Tom Cruise, I hope people will question it.

I respect anyones private beliefs but collective worship needs to be dropped and RE should teach other people's beliefs but not be taught as fact. Teachers should not be allowed to pass on non evidence based data.

Yes, even if children do have spiritual needs (which I doubt, having a sense if interest and wonder at the world is not the same as having spiritual needs) there's no reason to impose an old, conservative, retrogressive religious system that's centred on an image of a man being tortured. In fact there's no need to impose any one religion. If children had spiritual needs then teaching them about religions and other ideas like mindfulness, should be enough - then they are free to choose.

ONE of the things at the root of Abrahamic religions is misogyny etc. But Jesus wasn't part of that crowd. And, as he made it clear he was the representation of God, I'd have to conclude that God isn't one of that crowd, either. For all the faults and alarm of the OT, that wasn't God's agenda even then.

As I said: religion/God = two different things. One vicious, corrupt, heartless, weird, dusty, barmy; the other on it, practical, pragmatic, full of love (the juice we all want, need, crave). We may not all have a discernible spiritual hunger but we all want, need, crave (depending on how well it is met) love; to know we're valued, respected, relevant etc. Either to those around us or to society in general. People get ill/die for lack of it.

Though, to be fair, sometimes there's a flash of love/on it/practical etc in religion, or religious expression, but it's not the norm. That I've seen, anyway.

The very fact that Jesus and God are men, for me makes Christianity suspect and of its time.

Oh of course the all-powerful ruler is male and his representation on Earth is male. That's not what kids in 2015 need to hear. You can have spirituality without it being embedded in an ancient sexist system.

Even the Greek gods who predated Christianity provide better role models.

i don't mind debate with "atheists" I do object to people who tell me "its all made up" with no arguments

mummytime do you believe in magic or do you know its a trick?? I watch magic shows pretty much all day every day (its part of my job) am I absolutely fascinated as to how they do it - definitely. Do I believe they have powers - of course not! That is logical. All magic is is sleight of hand. A distraction. That is all religion is to me - except I can see the wires and call out the phoney's. I accept that some people need/want religion in their lives but absolutely do not want religion taught in schools where it could do irrevocable harm. I like my magic comparison so I'm going to use it again. How would you like it if for one lesson a day (sometimes more) a magician came into your Childs class and told them without any irony that everything he was doing was real. During assembly would subliminally drop hints that "magic is the only way to live" and "if you don't like magic - you're naughty".etc. That's what it is like for me. As other atheist posters have said. Absolutely TEACH about ALL religion but do not pretend that this bullshit is absolutely fact. when neither you or I can prove otherwise.

Sorry but you have to only got at most 200 years, before "whatever" happened was making a big fuss in the Roman world

-i said that something must have happened.

Which was alos hardly a primitive culture.

Not a primitive culture at all - just barbaric and oppressive... No need for anyone to want to get out from under that system at all. Having faith in something to help you get through an ordeal is entirely different to having something or someone tell you how to live your life. Also the romans didn't just "pick on" christians

"atheists"
Why have you put atheists in quotes - do you not believe that we are? Like we don't believe in your god

A bit ranty but that is why I am an atheist.

erm weren't the vast majority of greek gods male?

Jesus had enough trouble as it was, he wouldn't have made much headway in that deeply sexist culture if he was female. There's a famous christian novel (The Shack) where God is a black woman (the holy spirit an asian woman) - to make the point, I assume, that God is neither male nor female.

There's Mary, mind. not that I'm with that, myself

Well "It's all made up" is a valid thing to say, because different people around the world believe in all kinds of different, non-evidence-based creation myths and deities. Anyone can make anything up (and they do - like L. Ron Hubbard) and it's fine as a religion, because it can't be proved or tested. The only thing that makes Jesus any better than the flying spaghetti monster, Thetans or Greek gods is that it happens to be the established religion in a particular time and place. But it's all equally non-evidence based and essentially made up.

If you ask people in any part of the world what is 2+2, what's the capital of Peru and how does a plane fly, any normal person won't give you answers based on a bunch of arbitrary beliefs that happen to hold sway in their part of the world. They'll all give you roughly the same answer, because these are facts and they can be shown to be true.

That is the difference and that is why we call religion "made up". And that is why it shouldn't be in schools.

If you can concede that scientology, pastafarianism or greek myths are made up, how can you know Christianity isn't? The overwhelming likelihood is that it is. Why would one religion that happened to come along approx 10,000 years after civilisation began happen to be the right one, out of hundreds?

The chief greek god was male (also of its time) but at least there were some active, kick-ass goddesses with stuff to do beyond staying at home and procreating - that's all I mean about role models.

As other atheist posters have said. Absolutely TEACH about ALL religion but do not pretend that this is absolutely fact.

A theist poster has said that too iirc.

(The 'naughty' thing is a red herring btw imo. But interesting how people generally don't truck with any idea they may be getting some things wrong. Which hurts/harms other people - sometimes themselves. Jesus said to the (socially outcast) woman at the well - who was only there at midday because she was a confirmed outcast because of her lifestyle and race she couldn't go out at normal times: go your way and sin no more. Her lifestyle was harming her personally ie social outcast. Maybe emotionally, too? Who knows.)

Some good kick-ass women in the bible, too. Who was the woman who sold purple cloth and had a huge business? that was OT but the NT had a fair few. All bound by their sexist culture to varying degrees. Which Jesus ignored.

Perhaps not naughty, but some christians tell me that I and my children are born sinners, and that unless we accept jesus as saviour we will be eternally damned,

That's impolite at best. Fucking rude if you ask me.

I used naughty as my child is 6. I have definitely had experience of being told myself and my family are damned to hell for all eternity... Oh well XP

What do you mean double? You told your child she was naughty?

No goblin lol I worded that wrong again.

I used naughty in a previous post of mine.

"magic is the only way to life" and "if you don't like magic - you're naughty".etc

And then other pp used naughty.

I just wanted to use language that might be used as if a magician were speaking to a class 5 or 6 year old.

Hope that makes sense (had very little sleep last night)

double- I am envious of your job if you spend time watching magic tricks!!

Its all good fun - imagine Jonathan creek but with less murder lol more stress, grey hair etc though

Interesting - magic tricks like this are considered a big "no-No" by my family.

As are many other things like newspaper horoscopes, lots of pop music, dream catchers, yoga, incense, celebrating Halloween,Santa Claus, and loads more too many to mention.
All Satan trying to make in-roads apparently.

Once you start watching a magic show, next you will be in with the geomancers and alchemists, and before you know it supping a brew with old Nick himself!!

I didn't realise that there was no actual historical evidence that Jesus existed apart from all the books and crosses. How interesting.

DS1 starts school next week. We live in a very diverse area so I'm hoping that the school takes a very softly-softly approach to religion and that DS1 doesn't come home convinced that it's all true.....

We live in a very diverse area so I'm hoping that the school takes a very softly-softly approach to religion

I found volunteering as a parent helper a real insight into the ethos of the school.

LaContessa: what kind of evidence do you think there is for most historical figures from late antiquity?

What historical evidence is there that Socrates existed?

Actually, there is none. The only evidence he existed is that Plato wrote some books about him. Think of how easily people lose documentation now, in a world where there is a lot of documentation. And then consider a world in which there are no records of births or deaths, no electoral roll, no bank details, no national insurance numbers. What kind of record would there be of a person who wasn't a citizen of the Roman Empire (and so, under Roman Law, wasn't a person)?

And in a world where there wasn't news reporting going on all the time, and where parchment or papyrus and ink were expensive and precious and most everyday records were on erasable wax tablets, what other kinds of records of a person would there be?