Compulsive Worship or discrimination for my children at school...

[recall]

My three children attend a Primary school, it is not a CofE School, or any other type of faith school. They have an assembly once a week and "Open the Book" come and act out plays taken from the Bible. At the end, ask the children to prey. My daughter who is 8 said recently that "God does exist" "God is all around us" I asked her who had told her this, and she said it was the Christians in Assembly. She said she bowed her head when everyone preyed because she did not want to upset anyone.

I have spoken to the Headmaster regarding this, and he said they have to have 15 minutes of Christian worship a week.

I feel this is so wrong, that Christians are proselytising to children as young as four at school where I as their parent am legally bound to ensure that they attend. They are being taught individual's personal beliefs as if it is fact. I see this as a violation of their human rights - its is compulsory worship, they are too young to decide whether this is desirable. I am told that I am able to excuse them from these assemblies, but this is segregation and discrimination. It is heart breaking that children are being segregated from each other due to religion in school, a place of education. Christians are free to proselytise anywhere else, why must they do it in schools? This is dividing the community unnecessarily.

So this is my choice as far as I can see it....either I allow the compulsive worship, or my children are excused/excluded.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can come to terms with this ?

Fuck it. Bertrand

Bloody hell, Lurked, how fucked up are the people around you? That's a bleak world view.

I don't mean we teach false things as well as facts!! I mean there is a lot more to an education than a body of knowledge.
For example, in a GCSE biology class, we had a discussion about reproductive technology, fertility treatments, etc. We discussed the range of opinions and ethical issues around these, including for example what to do with excess embryos from IVF and whether or not IVF should be available to single parents, and same sex couples. I can tell them how the law stands, but I keep my opinions to myself, it's about allowing them to develop and defend their own. That's an example of what I mean by not just dealing in facts. Teachers of English literature, History, RS, would I imagine have a lot more examples to give.

I realise I'm stepping get out of the primary context of the op, here.

Not really four do you think the child that tried hard and is bottom in English will be hailed for their literacy in life? Or the child that is bottom in maths but tried will get kudos in the adult world for their numeracy skills? Cos I don't. Like it or not the clever child, obnoxious or not will do better in those subjects. And even if truly obnoxious can learn humility easier than the academically far behind can sail through exams and quals. Same with the sporty child, or the one that's always well behaved over the difficult one. It's not factually correct but nobody is moaning the school gave their dc an award for something they're crap at and its therefore factually incorrect.
Dd's school didn't teach Santa but certainly discussed him and brought him to the xmas fair etc.

Bertrand to be fair, that's not all the op said. She has accused the school of forcing her child's head full of Christian beliefs, which is why some people have responded with comments about her dd thinking for herself. Also, attending assembly with collective worship doesn't really constitute being forced to pray. I never did.
You seem to be keen to declare everyone who disagrees with you as bizarre and peculiar, and to shut down discussion. I don't really get that.

Giving a child encouragement is not the same as teaching lies.

Yes that's what I thought you meant diddle; sorry, I wasn't clear.

Sorry Real that comment was for AlanPacino, who asked what teachers teach that isn't factual.

I disagree four. At no award ceremony have I seen a teacher say anything but 'doing well and trying hard'. They don't say 'for being pretty shit but trying hard'. They lie. Just like religion, cos it's a harmless lie that the majority benefit from.

You live in a sad world lurked.

Not at all, yours is no doubt sadder getting all put out by a few mins none compulsory worship

The move in schools to recognise effort and not achievement is evidenced based, it's based on the factual outcomes of the two approaches.

news.stanford.edu/news/2007/february7/dweck-020707.html

Also Lurked they're not lying, they're actually not thinking 'pretty shit but trying hard'. Teachers value effort, cos kids can usually get better at things when they try.

I have managed to teach for 40 years, much of it in church schools, without saying God was a fact. It wasn't difficult- it is a faith or belief. I have taken plenty of assemblies in that time.
I understood that when I was at school- despite morning prayers, home time prayers, grace, hymns etc. I think that children are quite open to that. i remember one discussion, can't remember what it was about, but I do remember one 7 yr old saying 'that depends on whether God exists or not'.
It helps if the parent has said 'I don't believe that God exists' rather than 'Gid doesn't exist' - which equally is not a fact.

Auto correct again! God.

Nowhere did I say I disagreed with awarding effort or say I required evidence to prove it's beneficial. I used it as an example of another area school don't stick to proven scientific fact, i.e which child achieved highest.
diddle that was a fly away comment, I don't imagine teachers are, I just used it to make the point they don't tell everyone the truth that they've only achieved lowly, it's just entitled the sports award, or literacy award etc

I have no evidence that god exists, so I assume he doesn't. Atheism is not a faith.

Exactly- you assume.

It's suprising that the children who appear to pick up these strong ideas in gods existence belong to the athiests most strictly opposed.

"It's suprising that the children who appear to pick up these strong ideas in gods existence belong to the athiests most strictly opposed."

I am perfectly happy for my children to decide to believe in God. I just don't think it's appropriate for them to have to pray in school.

Exactly- you assume.

Well, yes. But that's not limited to a Christian god. Or deities in general. There are many, many things in which I have no belief due to lack of evidence. Why elevate the Christian god above all those other things in discourse or in discussion with children, by giving it a special role in our schools?

I find it curious that people struggle with the idea that for many of us, this is a point of principle and it's perfectly legitimate to object to aspects of public policy, not because of the impact on one's own child or children, but because they think it's wrong and damaging. From that perspective, ' just remove your kids' is such an odd response.

Can I remove my child from the structural privilege enjoyed by religion in general and Christianity in particular in our society? No? Then I'll keep campaigning against it.

That's even before you get me started about the gap between the 59% who identified as Christian in the census (itself a drop of 13% on the previous Census, which is a huge shift) and the 30-odd % who consistently say in response to large scale surveys that they believe in any deity or deities, (or the consistently lower numbers on Christianity in the British Social attitudes survey, where the question is a bit less leading). That's quite a big (but narrowing) gap of those who identify culturally without belief - and undermines the idea that worship in school is somehow carrying to the desire of the majority. It's always interesting on MN threads how many people with kids at non- faith schools are even aware of the fact that compulsory collective worship exists in law, our at their school.

• catering to the desire of the majority.

And of course, when you consider how many people attend collective worship of their own volition, the idea that collective daily worship is catering to the desire or preference of a majority of people becomes even more curious.

diddlediddledumpling my younger daughter is four years old. How can she be expected to unravel all of this and be able to think for herself. This Christian fundamentalism is being presented to children between the ages of four and eleven. The judgement and understanding of a four year old and an eleven year old varies greatly. The four year old thinks Mr Tickle exits FFS !

Why the need to have to deal with it ???
Why can't they just stop doing it. People have repeatedly said "it's not a biggie" so what's the fucking point ?

Why the need to worship in schools ?

Why teach children a load of crap only for them to come home and me "unteach" it. What a pointless waste of everyone's time.
It's like teaching them that they can fly, and the onus being on me to explain that they can't actually fly. Ridiculous.

And I still don't understand the need to worship in schools. I see no benefit whatsoever.

I'm not obsessing - I'm questioning it. If someone could explain to me why it was beneficial for my kids to worship at school Id be up for it, I am open minded and I am not willingly misunderstanding people.

I remain baffled as to why the need to worship in school, and how does it benefit children to the extent that it is worth segregating them in order to uphold it.