Compulsive Worship or discrimination for my children at school...

[recall]

My three children attend a Primary school, it is not a CofE School, or any other type of faith school. They have an assembly once a week and "Open the Book" come and act out plays taken from the Bible. At the end, ask the children to prey. My daughter who is 8 said recently that "God does exist" "God is all around us" I asked her who had told her this, and she said it was the Christians in Assembly. She said she bowed her head when everyone preyed because she did not want to upset anyone.

I have spoken to the Headmaster regarding this, and he said they have to have 15 minutes of Christian worship a week.

I feel this is so wrong, that Christians are proselytising to children as young as four at school where I as their parent am legally bound to ensure that they attend. They are being taught individual's personal beliefs as if it is fact. I see this as a violation of their human rights - its is compulsory worship, they are too young to decide whether this is desirable. I am told that I am able to excuse them from these assemblies, but this is segregation and discrimination. It is heart breaking that children are being segregated from each other due to religion in school, a place of education. Christians are free to proselytise anywhere else, why must they do it in schools? This is dividing the community unnecessarily.

So this is my choice as far as I can see it....either I allow the compulsive worship, or my children are excused/excluded.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can come to terms with this ?

I don't like the use of the word spiritual either. What exactly is the 'spirit'? And how is it different from the mind? I'm guessing most atheists would not believe in the soul or spirit - they seem to me to be essentially religious concepts. Thankfulness and wonder are great, but I don't see how they are outside the compass of the mind and emotions.

Well I've had several heated discussions with dh over the years about spirituality and we never come to a resolution, (he reckons it is claptrap) so forgive me if I stop now! Suffice to say I've had reason to check the Wikipedia entry on it in the past (the long winter nights just fly in, as you can imagine....) and it does explain that in the last century the term became more secular and separated from religion. And also that there is no agreed definition of it.
(But surely you can be thankful for what you have without being thankful to someone or something?)

e.g. the vast accumulated human experience of manipulation of mental states and adjustment of thoughts and personal traits across many religious traditions is fascinating and of massive potential benefit to all mankind and I think it's wrong to leave it solely under the label "spiritual development".

I do SWYM diddle but feel the term "spiritual" is unnecessarily ghettoising and alienating, drags in some things which are better considered under morals, ethics, or psychology, and also tends to incorporate and legitimise a lot of rank claptrap.

I'm not sure it's possible to be thankful without being thankful to something. Glad or appreciative sure, acknowledgement of privilege or good fortune (for want of a better word), yes, but I tend to think of thankfulness as needing a recipient and have issues with being "thankful" for something that was just luck, as though one were chosen over someone else to be the recipient of good grace. But I'm quibbling

You seem to be spending obsessing a lot of time over your child's assemblies. They are a tiny part of school life. Fwiw, my ds.both had prayers and hymns at assembly. One is now a firm believer, the other completely the opposite. My ds, aged 23, an atheist recognises that people are entitled to faith. He doesn't agree with it but has respect and consideration for those that do. Sadly this is lacking on here

So the Education Act that I originally quoted said that education in schools should promote "the spiritual, moral, cultural, mental and physical development of pupils at the school and of society".

Seems to me there are objections to the use of spiritual here, which I can understand (based on comments and also those long discussions with dh) and that people think the things I class as spiritual are covered by the other qualities on the list. Fair enough.

My point in quoting it, however, was to counteract the notion that schools should only pass on facts. That's really not why I teach.

I don't agree punkrocker.

Of course everyone is entitled to their faith. What they shouldn't be entitled to is peddling their faith to kids.
And if they try to peddle it to adults they should realise that they may get short shrift.

And RealHuman yes, you are rather quibbling, but so am I . Sure we wouldn't come on these boards if we didn't enjoy a good quibble.

"doesn't agree with it but has respect and consideration for those that do. Sadly this is lacking on here sad"

Lacking exactly where?

Well said Punkrocker. If I can use a similar analogy : myself and my siblings all went to a faith school. I chose to believe, my siblings chose not to. The choice was ours. But what they did learn, was to respect those who do have faith.

I think that teaching would be deadly boring for all concerned if you were just passing on facts.

You seem set on thinking that all schools teach Christian beliefs as facts, BertrandRussell. Maybe some schools do. My DCs school most definitely put 'Christians believe' in front of sentences and the children could 'make it a prayer' if they said 'Amen' - if they didn't want it to be a prayer they just sat quietly without saying anything.

I admit that they don't all, but I went to primary school in 1950s and Sunday School and I was aware it was beliefs and not facts- even if it wasn't spelled out.

I like a good quibble to too! And happy to be 'peculiar'.

Passing on facts is what encyclopaedias are for, not teachers

I love a good quibble, me.

I think it is far more interesting when you get families with different beliefs. I know several where one sibling has a faith and one is an atheist, or one partner has a faith and the other doesn't. They all manage to live together quite happily. It is a personal thing.

Children do too- they love to get off facts and on to a good discussion- and a quibble.

What other misinformation is taught at school though- apart from God is real and Jesus died for us? I can't think of any.

I'd be concerned if my children's school were teaching them things that were false! I'm all ears for the things that teachers teach that are not factual.

four that it's effort that gets praised not achievement? The losing runner/ team gets equal praise? That the struggling child reaps rewards? The myth of Santa? That if you're nice others are too?

All not factual in the adult world but certainly misinformation that children should be exposed to at primary school.

the difference between fact and opinion, that you seem to be missing, fourtothedozen.

Not especially good examples lurked.
Effort does reap rewards in adult life. Being clever and obnoxious doesn't always mean you get the best job.
My childrens school never mentioned Santa.

it is utterly bizarre the things that people hear when all you say is "I don't want my children to be expected to pray in a state funded non faith school"

It seems completely impossible for people to belive that that is all you are saying. They hear "I don't want my children to think for themselves" "I don't want them to have opinions different to mine" and "I don't want them to learn anything about religion". Very odd.

In the absence of evidence we have to assume that god does not exist, and unfair to tell kids otherwise.

the difference between fact and opinion, that you seem to be missing, fourtothedozen.

But isn't the point that opinion is generally presented as such in teaching - or at least that it should be, if the teaching is good?

Except in some forms of collective worship, unfortunately, where it gets rather muddled up.

I agree with that totally Bertram!