Going to Church on Sundays

[EdithSimcox]

Question for Christians obviously: How important is it to you to be able to go to church on Sunday?

I have recently refound faith after an absence of 25 years. My DP is finding it impossible to accept. I've been trying to find ways of being as unobtrusive as possible about it - including going to church near the office on a weekday lunchtime so as not to disrupt our family weekends. But I do want to go to church on Sundays sometimes - I want a 'home' church, to be part of a regular congregation, to sing hymns, to feel part of a church family (DP would really shudder at that one). In the last 8 weeks I've managed to go twice. I wasn't going today anyway because I knew 2 weeks in a row would really tip her over the edge. But this morning she asked me to agree never to go on Sundays. I said it was too big an ask to try and bounce me into and she had a sort of panic attack (I don't know if that's a technical thing, but it's definitely a physical panic/pain response she has - which she is having therapy to deal with but she thinks may never go away)

I do want to put her and the DC first, and I am prepared to compromise, but I was thinking more like going once or twice a month, not never. But she says I can pray anywhere and go to church in the week, so it's not a big thing to ask at all.

As a compromise I'm think I'm going to agree not to go until September, but that won't be enough I'm sure.

What do you think?

X-post greenheart - does that explain it?

It's hard to say how far you should take it as a decent relationship should be able to cope with either partner having outside interests. It does sound like there is a lot more than it than this and sounds like DP could do with talking through her response with a Counsellor or similar.

I do feel for you, sounds an impossible situation to be in.

Edith what part of your religion does she fear and hate? I ask because if it is the negative aspects which unfortunately people associate (and sadly sometimes not without reason) such as bigotry, being complicit in covering up abuse, extremism etc etc then surely if she does respect you then she knows that you wouldnt morph from the person she loves into this so no need for her to worry. And that what you are discovering belief in has nothing to do with this. If it is the actual belief in the supernatural element she hates then I just don't understand the extremity of the reaction. I know that my dh, some friends etc are amused, bemused and think I am wasting my time and effort on something I have made up and I get this as if I didn't believe then this is probably how I would feel but none of them have this extreme reaction to it as they would find it difficult to feel strongly against something they don't believe in. I have zero interest in one of DH's main hobbies and it is not something we do together, ever, he loves it, it is a major part of who he is and I don't enjoy it and that is fine. Because it is fine to have different beliefs, interests, hobbies or whatever and IMO as long as you are not actively harming anyone then trying to stop anyone going down their path is oppressive and yes, unreasonable. And the central message of the Gospel is love along with tolerance, acceptance and helping others so nothing to scared of there.
Back to your original question, going to church on Sunday for me is important but not essential. Most of the year I do and love it, sometimes I don't make it so go to weekday mass which I also love because of the peace and sometimes I don't go and try to listen to a service, mass or message of some kind online. I don't believe it is necessary to be a "proper" Christian to go every Sunday ( or even at all).

I think it's very important to belong to a church community. The incarnation - Christ becoming human - is at the centre of Christianity, and the church becomes Christ's body as we are joined together in worship and the sacraments. We meet God in each other - with all the difficulties and joys that entails. I think you are right to feel that you need to be part of a church family, because we grow as Christians in relationship with others.

But that doesn't have to be on a Sunday morning - some churches have weekday events with regular congregations, and other activities that happen during the week - home groups, for instance. Something I think might be helpful for you is to do the Pilgrim course (I wouldn't personally recommend Alpha) if you can find a church that runs it.

But this doesn't get to the heart of the problem, it just avoids it, doesn't it? The problem is you are trying to work out a really difficult situation in which your partner is having a really extreme reaction to your new-found faith, and is making compromise very hard. For her, it's not just a new hobby; and, in a sense, she is right. She doesn't see faith as trivial and as a personal, private thing. She's right to think that faith does entail some big commitments. But I suspect that she also, somewhere, knows that her reaction isn't reasonable.

I wonder if saying that you would like to go once or twice a month from September is the best plan. Once you have actually started to go, after the first few times, it does become normalised. When I first started to go to church it was quite a big deal (and I was in a very different position to you OP), I'd have to 'announce' it and deal with any changes of plans. Now it's become what I do and doesn't really have to be talked about.

Your thread just made me think of this book that someone lent me once:
www.amazon.co.uk/How-Pray-When-Doesnt-Believe/dp/0956624901

It's written by a woman who came to faith and whose husband was fairly horrified and disgusted by her new found belief and really didn't want her to go to church. It was quite interesting to read how she handled it all. It didn't help me hugely as my dh, although not a Christian, is fairly laid back about my faith. But maybe of interest. Wishing you all the best.

Hi Edith I think you've already had some really good responses here. I understand how difficult things are and the whole conflict between your faith and your DP. As others have already said, I don't think the standard relationships board response really helps in this situation, it's not straightforward and I can understand there being tension on both sides.

I think church on a Sunday is a really personal thing. Sorry if I've missed it, but do you want to go on a Sunday because you feel like it's the Christian thing to do or because you want to? If you think it's just the done thing, I would say perhaps it's best to stick with weekday, but if you want to go then I think you should go even if like others have said it's every other week. Church comes in many forms and I don't think Sunday service is essential for worshipping God. I personally love the Sunday service as it gives me time to reflect on things with God, to praise him but also to see many of my friends from church since they don't go in the week. I prefer the slightly longer, traditional style of worship too so to me it's not quite the same going mid week.

I wonder if perhaps it would help your DP to see a counsellor? There are obviously some deep seated issues for her which can be very difficult to overcome. I wonder also if it would help you to arrange to meet with your vicar and chat things through with him / her? Of course that won't help your DP directly, but they may be able to advise on how best to help her or to just really be a source of support irl for you, I'm sure they have dealt with this issue (or similar) before.

Take Care and as always, keeping you in prayer.

It sounds like your dp feels quite frightened and perhaps threatened by your exploration of faith. Has she had bad experience of church or religion in the past, in some way? It sounds as if she is finding it difficult to cope with the fact that you want to go deeper with it. It must be very difficult for you, trying to balance out wanting to get involved in a community and also to honour and love your dp through her struggle with it. You sound really caring towards her, and in the end, that will speak to her so much about where you are with it all. Perhaps she is fearful faith will somehow take you away.

Counselling seems a good idea, if she is up for it. For me personally a community of faith is very important, though that needn't mean a sunday. My little church has midweek meetings and groups and people come to those who never come on sundays, and are as much part of the community. Would she cope better with you attending something on an evening, or is it just the whole faith thing in general?

In the end, I believe God is bigger than we know, and can contain all these things. God is good, and honouring those we love is an important part of our faith - and so is being part of the body of Christ. It seems to me that God is drawing you to God at the moment, and while that is so wonderful in many ways, it can also mean difficulty.

you're in my prayers.

you have of course every right to follow and observe your faith, assuming you are in the UK (in some countries this is not the case). But if she married a non-religious person and that has suddenly changed, I can see that is a big issue for her.

it's not just an hour's absence on a Sunday, it is a whole different way of looking at things. That may be what is frightening her, wondering how far this will go.

so that is the chat you need to have, explaining that (hopefully!) you will remain the person she married; tolerant, accepting, rational and so on. These things need not be incompatible with faith, but with so much extremism in the world we know that in some cases they are.

you also need to agree what the kids do.

I hope it works out.

Thank you all for your thoughtful and helpful responses; and thank you for your prayers.

You are all right - yes there is more to it, and yes to counselling, and yes it's impossible but I'm still hoping for a compromise (on both sides I hope) and yes the vicar is being supportive and kind.

Niminy you are very wise as always - I am working on normalising it, it is just taking a long time, and it's so frustrating some times.

That really is where we need to get to, because frankly the week is too busy (full time job, 3 DC) for internet church, weeknight groups, travel to distant churches etc. And as I've said before 30 mins at lunchtime with a handful of souls and no music isn't enough for me. I am already fitting in all the bible study, and radio services, and private prayer I can and I just want more, well, community.

We'll get there.

Seven months later and we are still here, struggling with this same issue. I managed to go once or twice in September and October, had to give up again in November (the whole thing not just Sunday's), negotiated special permission for Christmas. We are just negotiating some new boundaries -again - and her red line is Sunday's -again- and mine is being able to be part of a community - which seems impossible at my local church if you don't go on Sunday. Pretty irreconcilable.

I suggested a compromise of once a month which I thought was a pretty modest request but it didn't go down well. Right now I'm thinking I'll probably agree to another month or two of no Sunday church. But there's probably no point as her view is not going to change.

Anyone have any more advice?

Frankly, I think you should just say "I am very sorry but this is incredibly important to me. I promise not to involve you or the children, but this is 1 hour on a Sunday morning."

And just go. She is being extremely unreasonable.

Oh Edith I hoped things were improving. I think you have been very reasonable and I remember your dp has some issues re religion which are why she reacts like this so I have sympathy with her but you seem to be bending over backwards for very little compromise in this which just isn't fair. You aren't trying to involve her or the children and you aren't becoming some kind of Westboro fundamentalist loon. Unfortunately your DP seems to be shifting the issues she has onto you and you aren't the one who can resolve them.
My DH is an agnostic / atheist (depending on the day) and he has real issues with the Catholic Church - a lot of which I totally get- down to bad experiences with it when he was young and I go to mass every Sunday. He will never get this part of me and I can't imagine being without it but we both accept it in each other. I would never try and persuade him or convert him and on the flip side if he were to lay down the law on it for me I truly think it would be a deal breaker as he would be asking me to abandon who I am at my core. Our relationship has been far from perfect at times and we are slowly emerging from a very sticky patch but this huge difference between us has never been invoked or ever been an issue of any gravity between us.
What do people in RL around you think? Are you getting support or advice from people who know you both?

Thanks BR - sounds so simple :) But we need an agreed solution not an imposed one, either way round, I think.

QoF. Thanks. I have been patient and reasonable most of the time, but I have sometimes fought back, and I know I have done things that hurt her too (not deliberately, but things I have done have had that effect iyswim). And I made a promise I didn't keep, so I certainly don't have any moral high ground. We will sort it out (for now, one way or another) with our counsellor tomorrow. I was quite shocked when I reread this thread though to see how little things have moved on in that time. I know 3 MNers in your situation, which I think is why I keep thinking that sooner or later we will get there too. In RL our friends are divided - some think I am as bonkers as she does, and say if their partner took up religion (even a gentle kind) it would be a deal-breaker, some think she should get a grip and just ignore it, some are disinterested or don't really get quite what a big deal it is, and others don't know anything at all.

I've found a church in the city centre that does a weekday evening service that I think I would like, so I'm wondering if I should just give up on Sundays and local, even though I like the vicar, the approach, the inclusivity and the congregation, and just try and get involved elsewhere. Feels like a big loss right now but that might be the right solution to keep the family intact.

You know that there is nothing useful that I can say here. But you're in my prayers, Edith, as is your DP. Praying for hope, for understanding, and for a light to shine on your path and show you the way forward.

Hi Edith, I am so pleased you came back here. I have thought of you often. Have you asked if there are any home groups from your local church which would meet during the week one evening? That would be one way of meeting the people from the local church, but not on a Sunday. I apologise if this has been answered earlier on the thread, I have not read it all again now, just caught up on today's posts and my memory from July is not that good!!

You're never going to come to a compromise.

If it's important to you, then you have to do it. If you were my partner, I wouldn't like it either. But I would accept that I had no right to stop you. I would fight tooth and nail to keep the children out of it, but I couldn't and wouldn't forbid you to go.

I dont think you have had an unbiased answer yet. Your wife thought she married a certain person, years later it turns out you have changed into something different. Its a bit like a married person coming out as gay, transsexual, or even being in love with someone else.

Lets say I married someone who believed the same as me but turned out years later to be religious, then we would have to part ways. You honestly just believe different things about life the universe and everything.

The truth is its not possible for your wife to truly accept someone who is what you want to be. The only answer is to go your separate ways. Sorry to be blunt but the only way you can stay together is for one of you to lie or hide how unhappy you are.

dont agree Bolognese. Changing sexual orientation or being in love with another person threatens the stability and core of the existing relationship. Having a religious faith (assuming it isn't fundamentalist in its persuasion) is no risk or threat to anyone else. And as long as it isn't being shoved down the throat of someone who isn't interested then I don't see the issue.
Edith maybe the weekday church is an option. Would DP find that easier to accept? Worth a go if so and see if works for you both. You may find other people in a similar situation as well who find it easier to go during the week.

What does she think will change about you? And is there any truth in it? Will you start disagreeing with something both of you used to support, for example?
If there are no changes that would affect her her behaviour is completely unreasonable. Maybe you can reassure her that you're not about to turn into a caricature of a Christian.
What a shame for you though having to keep this part of you hidden.

As I said, I would really struggle with this if I were the partner. But that wouldn't give me the right to stop my do going to church. It might make me rethink the relationship, but stopping Sunday church going isn't going to help with that.

Edith, it really troubles me that you appear to be being denied what to me is an important basic human right - to worship freely in the faith of your choice, providing you are not harming others. But I also see you seem very concerned about your dw, her health etc.
Rightly or wrongly, I think the following consideration would determine how I acted in your position:
If your dw has been horribly persecuted/abused in the name of faith, then I think I would abide by her wishes, despite the great personal cost, out of respect for the grave suffering she has undergone.
If she objects to faith on more generic, theoretical or abstract grounds, then I would pursue my own inclination, actually at any cost, as I could not be subjugated to someone else's wishes in this way, however much I loved them.
Perhaps my logic is rubbish, but I think context is everything in situations like this.
Good luck - hope you find a solution.

Bolognese, I thought that atheists were supposed to be in favour of people making their own minds up and not being influenced by education etc.
Saying to someone " You are free to decide what you believe about God but if you ever decide in favour I will leave the relationship" doesn't seem to me like encouraging them to make the right decision for themselves!
My own partner is an atheist and he would never dream of holding this kind of threat over me.

I believe in people making informed choices and accepting responsibility for them. If my partner suddenly took up a faith of course it would change how I thought about him. I would have no right to ask him not to or to forbid him to practice his faith but he would have to accept that he had actively changed the dynamic of our relationship and there might be consequences.

Bertrand Russell - but wouldn't you accept that that in itself would put pressure on your partner if they did decide to investigate a particular faith?

Edith Simocox I'm really sorry to hear that things haven't changed and it sounds really sensible to get some counselling. This might be about faith or it may be just the presenting issue and that is impossible to know without talking to you both in more depth than is possible or appropriate in an online forum.

If it really is about faith; your wife's lack of it and your discovery of it then it might help to think about yours as an interfaith marriage. Plenty of people make it work but it needs negotiation and you will both make mistakes along the way as you work it out. Perhaps your wife only knows the version of Christianity that Dawkins and his ilk put out there - fundamentalist, anti science, stupid and that scares her. There are fundamentalist Christians just as there are fundamentalist atheists but the majority are not. Maybe she needs to meet a few of the ordinary ones who don't feature in the pages of the four horsemen?