Difficult Questions about Christianity

[ReggieJones]

This is inspired by discussions on mn and also in rl about Christianity. Jesus' death for us can sometimes seem like an easy thing to explain and those of us who've heard about it for many years can become a bit complacent. But I also often find it a really tricky thing to get my head around, despite believing iyswim. It would be interesting to hear what questions people have and also how we might be able to answer questions in a way that's humble and not personally offensive (although Jesus does say that people will be offended by the Gospel.

a massive gesture

Of and for what?

Head, you wrote "I believed what people told me and confirmation bias took over from there."

What bias did you have that was confirmed by believing in god and being religious?

Its been interesting to read everyone's points. Don't feel bad Italian, you've answered questions really well, it's always interesting to hear how others respond to these questions. I'll try and come back and respond to more of the questions I've been having a bit of a break. Head have you ever considered going to an Alpha course? You might find it a good place to ask questions and discuss issues with people from a variety of faith backgrounds or none.

what basis did you have

Well for starters the school I sang hymns every day at school. The adults seemed to think Jesus was real which gives it gravitas. And then at Sunday school again groups of adults who say they believe it and thinking good people believed in God

Basis=bias

I did the alpha course years ago. It was held in my living room and was hosted by my then pastors wife and I even invited several neighbours. One even came!

I get that you "believed what people told you" Head, but then you said that confirmation bias took over. Confimation bias can only happen when bias already exists to be confirmed. What pre existing bias did you have that religion confirmed for you, or are you now saying that you believed in god and religion just because of what people told you?

It's impossible not to be told about God in our culture. All schools have to provide worship so I was exposed to the Christian God there some time before I went to church youth club.

I know I was very scared of death when I was a child and reckon the religion helped me cope with that as a child although I can't say this for certain, it was 32 years ago!

bothered that I or others believe it

It's about the claims you make though. You claim that the biblical God is loving but I can read the book too and see that in it he outlines an unjust way of rewarding people. If you made no claims then yes, I'd have little to say to you. Imagine I told you I believe in unicorns, you'd probably leave it at that but if I said that unicorns were ruling the world and If you don't believe in the Master unicorn you will go to a horrible place when you die and that the master unicorn helps you and is full of love even though I can see that he does nothing practically to help people, then I'm going to roll my sleeves up. And discuss how you think this is possible/fair.

Children exhibit many and varied safety behaviors. However Head, you attended an Alpha course as an adult and subsequently joined a fundamental sect of Christianity. You didn't do this because you felt the love of a god, your confirmation bias took over. What was it about the contradictory religion with it's wrathful, vengeful god that appealed to you?

Sorry when did I say I was in a fundamental sect? In my time as a Christian I attended a lot of different churches, CofE, pentecostal, baptist, brethren and all of them cherry picked in their own way. The reason I sound like I was a fundamentalist is that I now don't need to cherry pick and can take the bible at face value and don't need to internally rewrite it as I read to make it support a fair and loving God.

I thought that you had said on a previous thread that you were a Baptist. I had no idea that you were also Bretheren. I would consider these to be pretty fundamentalist branches of Christianity.

What I am asking is this: what was it about Christianity, with it's contradictory, unloving god that made you, as an adult, seek it out and then, having explored it, join up?

Which type of the Brethren did you worship with?

The brethren church seemed like the baptist. Not sure if it had a particular name for their particular brand of brethren-ness.

I became a Christian when I was a child.

Head, you became a Christian as a child. You practiced for about 30 years in various branches (including some pretty fundamentalist ones where women have to wear headscarfs who operated a Doctrine of Seperation) you did Alpha, yet you did not once feel god's presence.

Why?

I mean, why did you put yourself through all that?

Ah no maybe it wasn't brethren then as no one wore headscarves. I experienced feelings that I would have called god's prescience but now see it a different way along with the speaking in tongues and so on

Not all female brethren wear head scarves. There are inclusive and exclusive brethren.

Thanks for clearing that up Head. My Ex in-laws were brethren. It isn't a church that you can just walk into IYSWIM, so I was a bit that you had been a member.

Just to pick up on an earlier point but a lot of Christians view the atonement not as Jesus taking our punishment, but him conquering death. (The Christus Victor view rather than Penal Substitionary Atonement. There are other ways the atonement is thought about too.)

Dione there are all kinds of Brethren...
some you could walk into with no head covering and you would think it was a Baptist church
some you could walk into and you would be expect to be wearing a head covering (although I failed to do so and was kindly and gently requested to wear one next time (I did not go back)
and
some you would not know that the building was a church save for a small sign directing you to a telephone number. If you called that number you would be quizzed about your beliefs before you are told of the time service to come and join them.

I've been to all three kinds (or rather I've been to three Brethren churches for visits). So I've been to the first two but failed to get into the third (above) when I told them on the phone I went to a C of E church. When they heard that I belonged to a church with a paid minister that seemed to be a deal breaker and I was not invited to visit! It was a very long time ago! Embarrassingly, I had watched the film 'Witness', about the Amish, and passed the building on a Sunday to see lots of young people, women with long hair and dark blue head scarves, and just felt curious.

Actually you can read up on Wickepeida and it is all quite confusing because they all have slightly different names and practices.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Brethren

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Brethren_Christian_Church

I only know so much (not much) because I have lived in two areas where there were quite a lot of assemblies or Gospel Halls or whatever in the UK and desperately fancied a young man who attended a type of Brethern church in the USA when I studied there. He did invite me to his church but he was terrified I would speak in church (not allowed), I went and did not speak. But that night at my own church I could not resist speaking into the roving mike when I got the chance, simply because I could!

Phew, that was long! Sorry got carried away there.

Off to bed.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill good point.

Night all.

The 'Brethreny' church was the one o started off in but was going to much more charismatic 'spirit led' churches later on. I never did quite fit in to the brethren mould with my OTT makeup. The congregation largely consisted of about 5 families and their various generations etc. They were lovely though .