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Philosophy/religion

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I have told my DC I don't believe in God. DH thinks their morality is in danger

120 replies

BerylStreep · 13/07/2014 10:13

I have been an atheist since I was 12. DH is catholic, and when we met 13 yrs ago he was a regular churchgoer although hasn't been for the last 6 years or so because of the child abuse scandal. We got married in church, but only because he told me that if we didn't, we wouldn't get married at all. I went along with it because I knew it was important to him, but equally he knew my views.

Anyway, we were out for a meal last night, and I mentioned that DC, 7 & 9 had asked me about a book beside my bed. The Portable Atheist (which incidentally, DH bought for me). They asked me what it meant, and I explained that not all people believe in God, and even those that do, some believe in different Gods. They asked me a direct question if I believed in god, and I answered no, but I believed that some of the things in the bible May have happened and that people's scientific understanding at the time meant that they thought god had done things. We discussed Noah as an example. We talked about how it was fine to believe different things to other people and to respect other peoples views.

I didn't think it was a big issue, in fact I think it healthy that they know there is a different viewpoint. When I mentioned it to DH, he cracked up. He thinks that there is a risk that our DC will grow up not knowing about morality and won't know right from wrong.

An argument followed, where I told him I thought it was ridiculous to suggest that Christian teaching had sole preserve over morality, and that the child abuse that has occurred clearly demonstrated that it hadn't worked in practice.

We spent the rest of the meal in silence. Tbh this is part of a bigger issue with DH at the moment. He is stressed with work, and has been really argumentative and unpleasant to be around. I honestly think that the bigger risk to our DC is seeing his toxic behaviour at the moment, rather than knowing that some people don't believe in god. I just need to vent.

OP posts:
niminypiminy · 15/07/2014 15:29

AntiDistinctlyMinty was that aimed at me?

BigDorrit · 15/07/2014 15:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AntiDistinctlyMinty · 15/07/2014 15:31

No niminy it was a response to combust. The baby woke up in the middle of my typing and I ended up posting after you instead.

BigDorrit · 15/07/2014 15:34

This reply has been deleted

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MaidOfStars · 15/07/2014 15:58

The idea that atheism is merely a lack of belief is itself a belief

No it's not, it's a dictionary definition.

capsium · 15/07/2014 16:20

Lack of belief/negative belief/no belief can be a belief.

Eg:

Are there any biscuits in the cupboard?

  1. I haven't looked but I believe there is.

  2. I haven't looked but I believe there are none.

  3. I haven't looked so I don't know.

To my way of thinking response no2 is most like the atheist response to the question of whether God exists. It is a belief.

slug · 15/07/2014 16:37

By that reasoning, a Christian has a belief in the non existence of:
Thor
Mithras
Isis
Krishna
etc

Atheists just have one more non belief than Christians. Do they have a structure or a hierarchy for their various non-beliefs? Are they constantly asked to justify their position on the non-existence of Loki?

There is a difference between negative belief and non belief.

BigDorrit · 15/07/2014 16:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MaidOfStars · 15/07/2014 16:39

Lack of belief/negative belief/no belief can be a belief

Lack of belief/no belief cannot be considered a belief. That's just gibberish. A negative belief can be a belief if it framed in a positive, burden-of-proof sense i.e. you positively believe a negative. However, that's not what atheism is.

Are there any biscuits in the cupboard?
2) I haven't looked but I believe there are none
To my way of thinking response no2 is most like the atheist response to the question of whether God exists. It is a belief

Well, you don't really understand atheism very well.

The answer to the biscuit question is:
4) I have looked and I can't see any, therefore I do not believe there are biscuits in the cupboard.

Why do you think atheists don't look in the cupboard?

capsium · 15/07/2014 16:48

BiggDorrit Maid It was an analogy by means of illustration.

Maid
I've no ideas why atheists do not wish to look in the metaphorical cupboard.

slug my personal beliefs are that Thor etc, do exist, spiritually, for those that with do believe in them

God is a spirit. Spirit are non-corporal. They are non physical entities, so do not exist in the physical realm, rather they exist in the physical realm.

capsium · 15/07/2014 16:51

BigDorrit And the cartoon, that you have posted before, is actually true. The religious person could be concealing a baseball. No shouting, heads swelling up or pointy teeth are necessarily involved though....

capsium · 15/07/2014 16:53

Slug But yes a Christian could believe in the non-existence of something.

capsium · 15/07/2014 17:00

Sorry that should read:

God is a spirit. Spirits are non-corporal. They are non physical entities, so do not exist in the physical realm, rather they exist in the spiritual realm.

Typo.

MaidOfStars · 15/07/2014 17:04

I've no ideas why atheists do not wish to look in the metaphorical cupboard

You still assume we haven't.

We have.

I've looked, and been shown, all my life. I still don't see any biscuits.

slug · 15/07/2014 17:04

So capsium, are you constantly asked to justify your non-belief in Thor? As an atheists, I find the whole concept of a spirit (apart from the alcoholic ones) a whole non-starter and just as without substance as the concept of a god.

When you say " Spirit are non-corporal. They are non physical entities, so do not exist in the physical realm, rather they exist in the physical realm" you might as well be discussion fairies for all the sense it makes to me.

MaidOfStars · 15/07/2014 17:05

God is a spirit. Spirits are non-corporal. They are non physical entities, so do not exist in the physical realm, rather they exist in the spiritual realm

Do you believe Jesus existed in the physical realm?

capsium · 15/07/2014 17:05

Maid What you've died and come back to life again and know all the mysteries of the universe?

capsium · 15/07/2014 17:06

Maid Yes I do believe Jesus existed in the physical realm, He had a physical body. He was corporal.

SnazzyHotFlush · 15/07/2014 17:08
capsium · 15/07/2014 17:08

Jesus also is a spirit which is in unity/ at one with/ the same as/ God.

CrystalSkulls · 15/07/2014 17:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

capsium · 15/07/2014 17:10

slug The existence of Pagan Gods is something I myself have pondered on. It is in our history and part of our ancestry.

Booboostoo · 15/07/2014 17:13

Your DP seems to be ignorant of 2.5 thousand plus years of moral philosophy discussing the non-religious sources of normativity, from Aristotle's account of virtue as the rational life in accordance with the function of humans, to Kant's categorical imperative, to contemporary attempts to combine evolutionary biology theories with the emergence of morality. The concern with moral behaviour and character is a human endeavour not one exclusive to those humans who have religious beliefs.

capsium · 15/07/2014 17:13

slug Did you know the reason why alcoholic spirits are called spirits is because alchemists though they could extract the actual spirit of organic matter through distillation?

MaidOfStars · 15/07/2014 17:21

Maid What you've died and come back to life again and know all the mysteries of the universe?

Sure, why not. People believed it 2000 years ago, why not now?

Maid Yes I do believe Jesus existed in the physical realm, He had a physical body. He was corporal

So how can the trinity be true, if god is purely spiritual, what with him being corporeal Jesus and all?

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