I have told my DC I don't believe in God. DH thinks their morality is in danger

[BerylStreep]

I have been an atheist since I was 12. DH is catholic, and when we met 13 yrs ago he was a regular churchgoer although hasn't been for the last 6 years or so because of the child abuse scandal. We got married in church, but only because he told me that if we didn't, we wouldn't get married at all. I went along with it because I knew it was important to him, but equally he knew my views.

Anyway, we were out for a meal last night, and I mentioned that DC, 7 & 9 had asked me about a book beside my bed. The Portable Atheist (which incidentally, DH bought for me). They asked me what it meant, and I explained that not all people believe in God, and even those that do, some believe in different Gods. They asked me a direct question if I believed in god, and I answered no, but I believed that some of the things in the bible May have happened and that people's scientific understanding at the time meant that they thought god had done things. We discussed Noah as an example. We talked about how it was fine to believe different things to other people and to respect other peoples views.

I didn't think it was a big issue, in fact I think it healthy that they know there is a different viewpoint. When I mentioned it to DH, he cracked up. He thinks that there is a risk that our DC will grow up not knowing about morality and won't know right from wrong.

An argument followed, where I told him I thought it was ridiculous to suggest that Christian teaching had sole preserve over morality, and that the child abuse that has occurred clearly demonstrated that it hadn't worked in practice.

We spent the rest of the meal in silence. Tbh this is part of a bigger issue with DH at the moment. He is stressed with work, and has been really argumentative and unpleasant to be around. I honestly think that the bigger risk to our DC is seeing his toxic behaviour at the moment, rather than knowing that some people don't believe in god. I just need to vent.

I find it strange and narrow minded to only consider having friends and partners who have the same ideas as you

I'm atheist. I am a scientist. I am a skeptic (with a 'k'). A fair amout of my free time with my atheist, skeptic, scientist husband is spent discussing, analysing and debunking whatever the latest nonsense is. We like it; it's part of who we are.

I simply couldn't - couldn't - live my life with a believer. I know it's not a dealbreaker for everyone but it is for me. I have zero respect for the belief that god exists, and I don't think I could ignore it in a partner. It would represent a fundamental gap in our worldviews, one which permeates everything that defines who I am.

I do have friends who are believers though....

Me too maid, exactly. I can't imagine how we could have conversations that would make any sense. I couldn't have any respect for someone saying that because they thought there was a supernatural being in the sky, they had a monopoly on right and wrong. I would be so outraged!

I do have a lovely friend who's a Christian, but we tend to talk about work and relationships only.

But what will you do if your adult children find a faith (it does happen quite often) ? Will you sever connections because they don't live up to the way you envisaged them being? Will you not accept them as they are? Or are you just imagining it couldn't possibly happen?

I prefer to be open minded and take everyone on their own merits.

I think the problem here is that you and DH had not discussed in advance what you would tell the DC.

Your belief that there is no God does not trump his belief that there is one.

If your wish is to bring the DC up as agnostic, rather than in one belief about the existence or otherwise of deities, I suggest you need to revisit this in private with your DH and work out together what you are going to say.

As you have discovered the hard way, when parents have different beliefs, the potential for clash and difficulty is high. It is a pity that neither of you anticipated this as an issue, but now it has emerged, the best thing is to work out a way ahead which is mutually acceptable.

My family are religious. That doesn't stop me loving them. I am simply saying I would not choose to have a close relationship with someone of faith. I have religious acquaintances that I am happy to spend time chatting with of have a coffee. These are not the people I would choose to let become close to me.
Having a christian partner would be out of the question- but that is a choice. If my children became religious I would love them no less-great they would still be my children.

It does look a little unlikely however, as my kidsare pretty much adults themselves with a keen interest in religion, deeply set atheist views and a huge admiration for Christopher Hitchins.

"Your belief that there is no God does not trump his belief that there is one."

Edith - I think it does. Bringing up a child without indoctrination is preferable to filling up a young developing mind with untrue fairy stories.

Allowing a child to grow up with a mind free of religion is the most fairest thing to do. That child then has the freedom of though as an adult to decide whether to believe or not.
Bringing up a child in faith is robbing him of that choice.

Yes, I teach my kids the value of evidence, I explain how scientists "know" things or conclude it from the evidence, and the difference between that and a belief system based on dogma, which varies from person to person.

But I don't ever tell my DC they can't be religious. I say this is what I think and it's important to learn about the different religions so you can understand other people, and if you want to have a religion yourself, it's your choice.

If they did, I wouldn't cut them off, I'd listen and accept what I could. I'd draw a line at gay-bashing or bigotry in that I'd say I didn't agree, I wouldn't say "never darken my door again". Obviously I'd hope they were more like my Christian friend who is genuinely very tolerant and kind. However, I would never ban exposure to religion. I loathe the spouting of dogma being part of the education system, but I would rather DS went to church twice a year with school and see what he thinks of it, than ban him from it and make it seem mysterious and exciting.

I think one of the absolute worst things about religion is that it's acceptable to indoctrinate children from birth. Making a free choice is really important so I would never insist on them being atheists. However, if you are rational and open to the evidence, atheism or agnosticism does make the most sense.

thefirmament- I agree, although i think atheist is the default position of a child. Children are not born religious, it is something put upon them by adults.

Having an atheist ( without god) is something that children are naturally, without having any concept of the idea.

People bring up their child according to their own beliefs. They are not getting 'robbed' of anything as long as all parents are aware that their child will ultimately choose for themselves.

Nothing is set in stone which is why I much prefer an open mind. My father was an atheist but became a Christian aged 52 yrs.
Life is a journey- I wouldn't want to get narrow minded near the start.

It's harder for a child to choose for themselves if they are brought upp in a faith though. That's why you don't see hoards of adults in the bible belt of the USA convertying to Islam, or millions of people in Islamic countries converting to christianity.

If you really value an open mind then brining up a child without faith leaves the way clear for them to make up their own minds.

""Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man"

Children's minds are vulnerable and open, it's unfair to be peddling religion to them when they don't have the cognitive faculties to have an objective view about what they are bing taught.

Does he think you don't know right from wrong then?

I really don't believe that tosh about 'give me a child until they are 7yrs'.
It is extremely easy for children of Christians to be atheists.
More difficult for children of atheists to suffer the ridicule if they go to church I would imagine.
It is more difficult to get away from Muslim faith.
Lots of people convert to Islam- white women in their 20s are a big group.

I don't know why people don't have more faith in their children. They all have opinions if people bother to ask.

"It is extremely easy for children of Christians to be atheists."

Not my experience.

But what will you do if your adult children find a faith (it does happen quite often)?

Rejoice once again that the apparent 'religion of atheism' demonstrates its complete non-doctrinative, non-brainwashing effects? Unlike most religious folk, atheists don't raise their children to be the same as them, although this sometimes seems to be a difficult point to grasp.

Regardless, a child is not a soulmate or a kindred spirit (yes, the irony of those words is obvious). I do not require my children to share my political or religious views, my regard for American literature, my preference for Question Time over Eastenders. I do require those features in my mate.

I think 7 and 9 is quite old to start sharing your views with your DC. I've done it from much younger so that they understand what I think and what DH thinks. I leave it to him to share more detail about his side (religious but not churchgoing) but haven't been stinting in giving my own (atheist) viewpoint.

Of course it easy. Most of my friends are atheists- they were brought up Christians, sent to Sunday school etc and the world hasn't fallen in! They have normal loving relationships with their parents. My BIL was a choir boy- he is an atheist- it wasn't difficult!! He just stopped going to church.
I don't know any practising Catholics- I know a lot who brought up as Catholics.
It seems to be a lot more difficult for my atheist friend to come to terms with her son living his life centred on the local church. However she has had to come to terms with it.
My biggest shock as a parent was discovering that a baby isn't a blank sheet- they have decided views.
I really can't see why you bring a child into the world and have the expectation they will share any of your views, likes, interests etc- it is pure luck if they do( if it happens to be important to you).

I struggle to understand how it is difficult to switch to atheism. You stop attending church, synagogue whatever- job done!

I agree it is difficult for Muslims.

Well in many religious communities that would mean being ostracised, for example in some parts of the Islamic world and US Bible belt. I think it's a good feature of the UK that religion tends to be less of a big deal and people can drift away more easily.

It may be difficult elsewhere but very easy for C of E and Catholics and Methodists.

Of course it easy
The internet is riddled with horror tales of atheists coming out to their families, of people living in fear at being disowned, or worse. When you've read advice telling adult children to steal their passport, call a cab on XYZ number, travel to the ABC embassy (which is the nearest safe place) and declare their lives in danger, you realise that it really isn't quite so easy for many.

it is pure luck if they do( if it happens to be important to you)
This is simply nonsense, given that the vast vast vast majority of religious people in the world share that religion with their parents and their local community.

I struggle to understand how it is difficult to switch to atheism. You stop attending church, synagogue whatever- job done
Um, ones a/theism is not always connected to ones church attendance. Stopping going to church does not an atheist make.

It is in the head - no one can 'make' anyone anything.
Children with parents who are extreme with anything will have a hard time.