Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

[gingerdodger]

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

This thread has confirmed my atheist views.

To see the arrogance, self rightousness, bigotry and hypocrisy by the christians on this thread has been an excellent display for anyone wondering if christianity may be for them.

I hope it is now open for all those with the freedom of thought to see the filthy foundations on which religion is built.

Whereas the bible is 100% accurate, both in its prophesies as well as how the whole 66 books are in agreement with each other.

Ha Ha Ha Simply not true

I'm always highly dubious of anyone who claims the Judeao Christian bible as a blueprint for morals. It's full of slavery, rape, the oppression of women and racism.

many other religions with a religious bible are based on the original bible, just tweaked with added man-made religion.

By that reasoning you should be Jewish.

Oh, hang on a sec, what about Hindus? Doesn't their faith predate monotheism? So we should actually all be Hindu?

Hmmmm. Work or family commitments? Or just not prepared to try to defend the indefensible.

By which I don't mean Christianity. Faith by definition is indefensible or faith would not be required. I mean the offensive, ridiculous judgement being made about atheists.

of it is not god then it is in yourself

And you had to trust yourself capable of discerning goodness etc to find the god you have chosen. Bit of a major flaw with that logic.

what criteria do you huge some things to be evil

Does it hurt other people? Does it cause unnecessary suffering, will the end justify the means and so on. It's really not rocket science. I work with kids and am fully able to reason and explain why we don't hit/lie/steal without ever once evoking religion. 'Why don't we hit each other?' 'Because it makes us feel sad?' they will reply. As we get older we are able to understand and operate using increasingly more and more sophisticated morals because the overwhelming majority of it is grey a lot of the time.

Whereas the bible is 100% accurate, both in its prophesies....

I've mentioned recently the bit in the bible where Jesus is about to enter Jerusalem and he says to one of the disciples "I'll wait here while you nip into town and fetch me a donkey to ride in on so it looks like the prophecy came true".

Matthew 21 if you care to look.

Just recently we talked about how the city of Tyre was prophesied to be completely destroyed. Some claim it has been, but you can book a flight there on EasyJet.

There are lots of examples of prophecies that haven't come true. Though you can always say "not yet". Like the Second Coming that keeps getting promised for a later date when it doesn't happen on time.

Most of the ones that are claimed to have come true are heavily 'interpreted' and go something like this:

"and the king shall go forth into the land and the land will flow with milk and honey" Aha!! Well clearly the visit by Prince Philip to a dairy farm which had beehives was IT!! it proves it totally"

And you know a funny thing? If I went around saying that the bible was 100% true I'd have Christians yelling at me that I was wrong. That I was stirring by suggesting that anyone thought that.

This

Just wondering if loving summer or capsicum are going to come back?

Back Not to mention that what we know as the Bible has been heavily and selectively edited, and translated from Aramaic and Greek into other languages.

Sigh.

Hak I'm sure they will, if only to crow about atheistic immorality. Because Godless = amoral, obviously.

You have totally ignored or misunderstood a significant proportion of my posts. Eg I posted this:

Well, I have already been told on this thread that if I have any good, compassionate or altruistic urges they are Christian, and any selfish, venial or integrity free actions are atheist

Well you haven't been told that by me Hak. My point was that any belief that is apart from/does not refer to/is without God is by definition an atheist one. These beliefs could be positive or negative. Beliefs which are the same as Christian (or ones belonging to any other belief system) ones could also be described as Christian beliefs (or ones belonging to any other belief system), regardless of the religion or lack of religion of the person who holds the belief. Like a Venn diagram beliefs within belief systems overlap, ownership is a moot point.

So your initial question concerning how atheism affects me is a very open question....since atheist beliefs includes any belief which does not refer to/is apart from/is without God.

loving even with your twisted definition it's still discrimination. If I run a B&B and say in the advert that 'Cornish people are only allowed to book a room when no other non-Cornish person wants It' would I come in for any flack from the police? I would hope so! Imagine someone told you the human rights act was based on my morals. You'd be in disbelief.

christians are in Afghanistan

I'm sure they are. But about 98% are Muslim. I don't think I said there were no Christians but that religion is staggeringly determined by parents/culture which suggest it is all about parental influence and culture and that there actually isn't a god communicating directly with people all over the world. If he is, he's not very good at it in certain parts and better in others. according to the culture. And for a supernatural all powerful being that's quite hard to believe he is that lousy.

"So let me ask you: by what criteria do you judge some things to be evil and other things not to be evil? By what process do you distinguish evil from good?""

Good is what benefits and does not hurt other people. Bad (I choose not to use the word evil) is what does not benefit and hurts other people.

Will you now tell me what you think motivates an atheist charity worker, when you have clearly stated that you think that atheists are have a shallow outlook on life and think we should just enjoy ourselves all the time?

Why must there be but one truth?
Because they contradict.

Exactly!

Hakluyt could act with great integrity and you would not know whence came that integrity - and it would not matter. You do not know who she is in RL (I presume), so you would be able to judge her only on her actions. Would you then, on discovering that she had followed the dictates of her atheist conscience rather than any Christian teachings, discount her actions and her value because she rejected Christ? Her truth is different to yours and equally valid.

Hindy writings are post bible

Will have to check later on that. Regardless of when each of the 15 or so religious texts were written, to assume that the older a belief the more weight it carries than one thought about 5 minutes ago is a fallacy called argument from antiquity or appeal to tradition, a common mistake make when determining facts. Haven't got time to do links so will have to GIY.

hindi writings are post bible

The Bhagavada Gita was written between 5 and 2 BCE. The most common scholarly acceptance is around 2 BCE.

It depends on what you define as the bible. The Jewish Torah could conceivably claim to predate the Bhavagada Giita but anything from the books of Sirah and Daniel onwards are younger than the most famous Hindi texts.

Of course, if you are talking about the Rigveda, Samaveda, Yajurveda, Atharveda or the Upinashadas then you are looking at a timescale of 1500 to 500 BCE which predates even the earliest Jewish writings.

no good to the person who is mourning

That bus slogan wasn't addressing bereavement, it was the brain child of comedienne Ariane Sherine who started the Atheist Bus Campaign in response to an evangelical Christian bus advertisement which gave the URL of a website "telling non-Christians they would spend 'all eternity in torment in hell', burning in 'a lake of fire'"

Not entirely sure that "I have plans for you" would be much comfort to a bereaved parent, either. "Ask and you shall receive" might be a bit of a problem if they have asked with every fibre of their being for their child's life to be saved for the past 6 years as well.

And even mentioning Jimmy Saville is a bit bloody tasteless if you ask me.

My mother was told by her church that if she prayed hard enough then my terminally ill father would not die.

He did die and she felt very responsible.

Not much comfort there.

atheism does not give a plan for a hope or a future

I would have to accept that only theism does that if no Christians commit suicide but the statistics are fairly equal from what I know. Why are people without faith able to come through difficulties without belief in a deity? Because it's you that gets through. you, with the help of friends and family and support and time and love and empathy. The emotional benefits of religion are the same as any social network. And it can be argued that not having a belief in an afterlife can motivate you to make this one as good for us all as possible.