Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

[gingerdodger]

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

[capsium]

Whatever a person reveres as most important could be regarded as their god or gods though. Whole belief systems, doctrine and dogma can be built around this. Anything from power or money to intellectual prowess could effectively become god.

[capsium]

^to them.

[OneEggIsAnOeuf]

Some Buddhists do believe in god, but it tends to be in spite of being Buddhists, not because of it, and there is nothing in Buddhist philosophy to say you absolutely have to be an atheist. Belief in a deity or other spiritual beings is part of some traditions - at various stages local gods and customs became interwoven with Buddhist teachings, giving rise to variations from Buddha's original teachings.

Buddha was quite clear that metaphysical ponderings do little to end suffering, and so are largely irrelevant as the truth cannot be known. There is an excellent article here that says most of what i would like to say, only more eloquently (and with fewer typos).

[Kewcumber]

BUddhism doesn't tell you you absolutely have to do anything, does it?! That would be a bit rude and not very Buddha-like!

[headinhands]

Whatever a person reveres as most important could be regarded as their god or gods though. Whole belief systems, doctrine and dogma can be built around this. Anything from power or money to intellectual prowess could effectively become god

That would be the case if your definition of god was just 'the thing you care about the most' but I'm guessing you have a very specific element in your own definition, one that entails supernatural stuff, so no, I don't think that whatever someone reveres is their god when using your own definition.

[capsium]

Why does the supernatural element make a difference, head? If you revere, regard something as the most important defining thing in your life it does effectively become your god, gods or God. The nature of that god, God or gods varies as to what it is you revere on high.

[headinhands]

But your own definition of god involves a being with special powers, and mine would too so I don't think that you can call whatever is the most important thing in a person's life their god if you use your own flavour of its meaning. It would have to have a baggy, washy washy meaning to apply to someone who spends a lot of time and energy on something non-religious. And I do think the distinction is important. But I am very familiar with that Christian way of thinking about those without faith, I think it just serves to help theists make sense of someone not having a faith.

[capsium]

That is part of the reason I choose God, head however the definition still stands. Within Christian belief the distinction between worshiping God and Mammon is an example which fits my definition.

I suspect the thought that you might actually have a god or gods is an uncomfortable one for someone who regards themselves as an atheist. This does not make it untrue though. Effectively I believe everyone does, in all but name. Everyone IMO has belief systems, has beliefs and draws connections between them, making a framework in order to make sense of their own experiences.

[headinhands]

I suspect the thought that you might actually have a god or gods is an uncomfortable one for someone who regards themselves as an atheist.

It's irritating because the I see the distinction clearly. When I believed in god I thought there was a spiritual dimension to the world and now I don't, that's the main difference. If you use a loose and watery definition that's fine, you can say 'her god is her family' so long as 'god' means 'what most of her energy goes into'. I don't believe my family has any supernatural abilities though.

And for what it's worth Caps I'm guessing you put as much effort into your family as I am :) I'm guessing there is largely no discernible difference between yours and my life from the outside. You're paying bills/working/caring for friends and family and so on. You're not going around raising people from the dead or healing the sick or any of the things Jesus said you'd be doing.

[capsium]

There are a lot of things that might not be 'discernible' from the outside. I don't believe miracles necessarily look that miraculous, they can appear just as spontaneous or serendipitous events, being in the right place at the right time, coming across the right information at the right time. IMO it really does depend on your approach as to how you view things or whether you even notice them.

[headinhands]

Mammon as in personal wealth etc? Could you give me an example of how you think your life will be demonstrably different to mine in relation to 'Mammon'?

[headinhands]

wether you even notice them

Which is all well and good if that's what Jesus said. He didn't say 'things will happen that only you will notice, don't expect people to rise from the dead or anything'. Only he painted quite a different picture didn't he, quite different from reality.

[capsium]

Mammon as in personal wealth etc? Could you give me an example of how you think your life will be demonstrably different to mine in relation to 'Mammon'?

No because I don't know you head.

I talked about things depending on, whether you notice them, in reference to Jesus talking about the blind leading the blind. Jesus performed miracles yet some still did not believe in Him, still don't.

[headinhands]

I don't believe that miracles necessarily look that miraculous

I'm sure they don't, but all of them not looking miraculous? That's a bit of a concern isn't it?" Why wasn't Jesus satisfied to just go around doing these unmiraculous miracles I wonder what with them being so fab? Why bother with all the healing and walking on water? Why not just have gone around making people feel a bit better instead of all these whacky claims of handling poisonous snakes and so on?

[headinhands]

I haven't seen Jesus perform a miracle, if like that opportunity.

[headinhands]

So it's not a case of worshipping god or mammon then? Someone might not worship anything?

[headinhands]

This person who is worshipping mammon, what's he doing? How is he noticeably different to you?

[capsium]

I'm sure they don't, but all of them not looking miraculous?

That is why I didn't say all head. There are plenty of miraculous accounts through the ages and some relatively recent ones. The things is if you don't believe in miracles they are very difficult to prove, the explanation given could be that something just happened spontaneously because that is what happens occasionally.

This person who is worshipping mammon, what's he doing?

They would value material/success wealth over God. Their highest priority would be material wealth/success which, if the stakes were high enough, might lead them to make some corrupt decisions.

[capsium]

So it's not a case of worshipping god or mammon then? Someone might not worship anything?

I believe all people were made in God's image so have good (which is Godly) in them. So some of what they regard as important will be Godly. However if they regard some unGodly things as equally important, as Godly things, it is like serving more than one god - which you cannot if you are Christian, so they serve Mammon (but have some Godly qualities).

[capsium]

^ Not saying Christians cannot make mistakes. They, like anyone else can get their priorities wrong, do the wrong thing and most probably will until they learn more about and internalize what is Godly.

[capsium]

Material wealth can have wider connotations than just money also, it can by anything which is physical/material/earthly/sensuous that is of this world rather than being spiritual in nature.

[headinhands]

they regard some ungodly things as equally as important as godly things

Could you give me an example of an ungodly thing that I might regard more important than you. Or a good/godly thing that you might regard more than me. Although from your own post you appear to acknowledge that non-believers pursue goodness just as much, and I'm sure you won't deny that believers are fully capable of being very 'ungodly'. In which case why would Jesus use an illustration that was neither fair of true because we can see it's not a clear cut case of Christians=good and non-theist=Selfish narcissistic asshole

[capsium]

Could you give me an example of an ungodly thing that I might regard more important than you. Or a good/godly thing that you might regard more than me

No because I don't know you. It could be any earthly thing.

[headinhands]

How come there's no discernible difference in the goodness of people based on faith? How come we are able to be loving and kind without a faith? If I was god I might well have left us alone seeing how we are capable of smudging along and actually improving our ideas of humanity as we develop without him.

[headinhands]

Give me an example of how you are demonstrably less concerned about something material than your average non-theist.