Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

[gingerdodger]

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

I have plans for you

Which could be horrible plans; rape, bereavement, car accident, the list is endless. It should be I have plans for you which look like the stuff that happens randomly to everyone else

atheism is shallow

As shallow as discrimination/racism?

can't see a way that I can be around much

You can't leave us!?!?! You can't just instigate all sorts of hearty debates and then faff about with jobs and family and things. What about meeeeeeeeee.

No, either the thief stole it or he didn't. And so it is for spiritual truth

I disagree. There is a difference between faith and fact, between spiritual truth and provable truth.

Faith is the decision to accept or believe in a certain, unprovable, spiritual truth.

See, surely a believer thinks a spiritual truth will be proven one day so in that case a theist or what have you must believe what they believe is a fact albeit one that you are waiting for everyone to find out. So for example, either Jesus is in heaven or he isn't. That's a yes or a no. That's not a 'he's real for me and not for you'. That makes no sense. Certain things can be subjective like what you like 'I think that wine tastes of apricots'. Taste is subjective. Things existing isn't. People don't say 'I think bob next door is real' either he is or he isn't. I think people often use the word truth when they want to believe fluffy nebulous ethereal gubbins as opposed to the more 'inset tab A into slot B' religions. This 'what's actually real' is philosophy isn't it.

I didn't use paragraphs in my previous post = fact
My previous post made a lot of sense and it seems like I've got a fair grasp on what's what = opinion

Loving Message. Perhaps this is the point at which I should out myself as a holder of a degree in the study of religions. I can assure you I'm not cutting and pasting from websites but referring to an established body of academic work.

Now I'm off the phone I can be a bit more expansive. It's highly irritating to dismissively state that 'scholars disagree' and expect that to explain everything. 'Scholars' may disagree on the minutiae of when these texts were written but none, to my knowledge, claim they apostles date Jewish or Christian teachings. I could, if you like check that with actual people with PhDs and international reputations in this area (I work in a university with an international reputation in this area, I could just pop my head around a door or two)

I take your point about all religious traditions refining the ones that came before but you must also accept that Christian tradition and practice include elements of other traditions other than Jewish, including most notably Mithhras, Dyonisis and Krishna.

It's always been my reading that Islam does not reference the Christian bible at all but rather the Torah. In the early years it was generally known as a Jewish sect, with much of the Koran bearing striking resembles to pre-Christian Dead Sea scrolls.

Which takes me back to the original question on this thread. Do I, as an atheist, feel the need to, prostelize . The answer is No, but I am compelled to challenge beliefs that negatively affect my life. I find much of the Christian discussion on this thread (and I'm trying to find a way to be polite about his) arrogant. There have been some truly thoughtless, jaw dropping statements made about atheists that demonstrate appalling ignorance. As the running joke went when I was studying for my first degree, there's no better way of creating atheists than studying religions up close.

My previous post made a lot of sense and it seems like I've got a fair grasp on what's what = opinion

Definitely a matter of opinion, as I cannot make head nor tail of it!

Yeah, I should of added that that wasn't my opinion of my post either

any religion basing its teaching on the bible (but with adding their own flavour like mohammed did) is just diverting from the original.

LovingSummer, surprised you'd say that as that describes Christianity doesn't it.

It's harder to start a religion from scratch, but you can write a sequel and claim ownership of what went before. It worked for Islam, Christianity, Mormons and more. A lot more if you count the various Christian denominations.

As for what I said about prophecy I couldn't quote them without looking them up again - it's been awhile, but I expect if you remember any we could point out the flaws in them. There is one that sounds almost plausible if you can find it, but only one I think.

You know there is mention in the Old Testament about “the anointed one,”? Well apparently (according to the wisest scholars) if you translate that to Greek it becomes 'Christos'.

Since they called Jesus 'Christ' that's proof of one prophecy right?

Except that it's not is it. Because Jesus and his followers would know that and that would be why they called him it.

And why Greek anyway? Translated into Albanian it comes out as 'teputia' which is very like teapot and proves that my teapot is the saviour

Okay, I made that last line up, but you see what I mean. If you're allowed to say "sounds a bit like" and "in some other language" you can make almost anything fit. :)

Our minister tells us that part of being a christian is that we must evengelise and spread the word to others. I can't imagine sitting in our staffroom doing this - I'd be very unpopular very quickly.

I don't like Jehovah's Witnesses spreading their message at my door, so to me, he is asking us to do the same.

If people want to come to church, they know where they are.

Lesley I thought Jesus commands his followers to try to convert?

Mark 16

15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." (NIV)

That'll set the cat amongst the pigeons in the staff room!

Christians are like plumbers. You can't get proper ones like you used to.

Nowadays you have water flooding your kitchen and the guy they send is phoning his office to ask what a stopcock looks like and then saying "oh I think I need a spanner. I better go back to the yard and get one"

Time was, a Christian knew that god was standing next to him and could (we are told) perform miracles as needed. Now you get a long explanation for why "god could do this - he really could!", but isn't going to right this minute for reasons that are too ethereal for mere mortals to understand.

And you get "the bible is true... except for pages 12, 13,118-130, most of chapters 14-119......".

See the Exodus thread for a great example of that or any thread on religion on here.

You don't like it when Christians talk about God's power flowing through them either, though Back.

There have been some amazing coincidences in my life where I have happened to be in exactly the right place at the right time, just had important information almost fall in my lap, had prayers answered immediately.

I give my thanks to God, put my Faith in God. You undoubtedly would say these things would have happened anyway...

As I said before Faith involves conscious choice, what you believe and how you believe s a choice. It has to be, otherwise it would not be Faith, it would be ignorance.

Christians also have to be careful, 'I'll pray for you,' or any thing of the same ilk can be met with offence if the recipient is a non-believer. This has come up in previous threads. Offending people does not really help them.

caps that's great that god is answering your prayers and giving you snippets of information you wouldn't have otherwise had that have proved beneficial for you, that's great, but you're in the first world, you're not starving, you have access to education and healthcare.

In countries where they don't have that, and increasingly even in this country, god seems to care a lot less about the people that actually desperately need it and have no where else to turn. Where only god can help, he doesn't.

I think that's the upshot of why I find it offensive now. And remember I used to live like that too. Something good happens? It's god. Something bad? It's a test or I've done something to worry satan.

See, now it seems so self interested and self important. A god who cares enough about you to pass on some information? A god who cares enough about you to make Uncle Bert's lumbago clear up when you pray? But a god who doesn't give too many hoots about people with brown skin and strange gods in poor countries?

Nope, too much cognitive dissonance for this old codger.

head How do you know? You'd have to live it or live in among it to know I reckon. An non-believing outsider could look at my life and say 'What help?', ''What comfort?' etc, you'd be the same regardless..but then ask me and I feel I've been blessed, although I've also suffered. Not the same degree of suffering, at all, as some, but I have gone through some stuff. My Faith helped me cope.

you don't like it when Christians talk about God's power flowing through them

Main problem is there not being any evidence for it. That's what irritates. It's like the emperor's clothes.

you don't like it when Christians talk about God's power flowing through them

Main problem is there not being any evidence for it. That's what irritates. It's like the emperor's clothes.

caps I'm not disputing you've drawn comfort from it, I'm disputing the source. And there's no evidence of a supernatural deity doing anything. Yes there is evidence of you gaining comfort but no, there's no evidence of that comfort coming from anywhere outside of your head.

I have lived it. There were times that I did draw a comfort from my faith but now feel it was essentially escapism, a bit like movies and books.

I love movies and books too .

In fact structuralist literary theorists would argue books take on a 'life' of their own. They are in a sense living as they can affect us, physically (faster heart rate when plot is tense etc), emotionally, psychologically. I have spoken about this before and the way I liken this to the way I believe Spirit(s) operate. Beliefs about certain books, pieces of music and artwork are certainly interesting...

I don't believe any art form or religious belief is purely about escapism either. It is reflective and can tell us about who and what we essentially are.

capsium I agree.But it works because religion is man made. Christianity isn't particularly effective at explaining the human condition though- far too black and white.

I am drawn to the archetypal gods and godesses of ancient Greece in particular, just because they do provide metaphors and explanations of what it is to be human. They are very clever human constructs which allow us to examine ourselves with some interesting perspectives.
I wouldn't base my life on them however, but they are interesting.

combust

But it works because religion is man made.

How do you know this?

Christianity isn't particularly effective at explaining the human condition though- far too black and white.

On one hand non-believers criticise supposed contradictions on the other the Bible is accused of being too black and white. I personally think it is neither. I do think there is a right response to every circumstance but as all circumstances are different they are difficult to predict from our own very individual biased human perspectives (which can look like contradictions). Hence human fallibility and IMO the need for God and forgiveness when we make mistakes, so we can move on from them.