Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

[gingerdodger]

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

[capsium]

But Hak any beliefs which do not recognise God can legitimately be called atheist, even detrimental ones. It doesn't mean all atheists hold the same ones. Lack of belief in God does not necessarily denote a cohesive group of people with shared values and beliefs.

I cannot address the position of privilege Christianity holds since I am biased.

[Hakluyt]

"But Hak any beliefs which do not recognise God can legitimately be called atheist, even detrimental ones. It doesn't mean all atheists hold the same ones. Lack of belief in God does not necessarily denote a cohesive group of people with shared values and beliefs."

No, of course it doesn't. Atheism means not believing in God. No more, no less. I am an atheist. I am also a pacifist, a cat lover and Labour voter. Th last three are unconnected with my atheism. If I was a a dog loving Tory who believed in gunboat diplomacy I would still be an atheist. I could be a murderer or a humanitarian- neither would have anything to do with my atheism.
And if I may say so, it's pretty bloody smug and convenient to say you won't discuss Christian privilege. And extraordinarily unchristian.

[Hakluyt]

Particularly he I have given you three clear examples of how Christianity impacts on my life despite me not being a believer.

And you just say "Oh dear, what a shame. But it's lovely for me and mine and what I believe- so off you pop, dear. Bye bye"

[headinhands]

It doesn't even begin to matter whose dogs it refers to, in that analogy he likens the Canaanite to a dog in order of importance. It's not a simple 'wait your turn'.

Funnily, this passage was first pointed out to me when dealing with a white supremacist who believed that Caucasians were the real descendants of Abraham. And a quick google will reveal a lot of web pages grappling of Christians and non-Christians dealing with the 'isms'.

have you been so badly hurt

Are you familiar with 'ad hominem'? Deal with the blatant racism not the person pointing it out to you.

If you work in an industry where you come in to contact with the public please don't use analogies which refer to people as dogs because of their race and because you think people of a different race should come before them.

Could you imagine David Cameron releasing a statement about their new social housing policy and using such an analogy and that going down well? And when there was outcry they respond with 'it's not like we're not going to help them!'

It's not like she was asking for help with a paper cut while he was dealing with a cardiac arrest.

[headinhands]

She was a different race. She was Canaanite. The disciples were Jewish. What do you think Jesus meant by 'the lost sheep of Israel?' As far as I know faith schools don't discriminate on race.( I still don't agree with it seeing as my money helps fund them.)

[headinhands]

reject god's free gift

A gift I have absolutely no reason to think exists. I reject it in the same way I reject Zeus. Show me it's real and then we'll haggle

[headinhands]

same colour

And that's where your definition of racism starts and ends? It's impossible to be racist to someone with a similar/same coloured skin?

Racism; The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

[SixImpossible]

Is there not space to share your views without trying to convert people to your way of thinking?

If I share my Christian thinking, answer questions, in any way that reflects being a Christian is something I value, I could be accused of seeking to convert.

Yet I manage to do so when answering the questions of non-members of my religion, or explaining why I do/do not do something to them.

I expect that it is because my religion does not seek to convert, whereas Christianity does.

I'm drawn to this thread like the gaze of a driver to a crash on the other carriageway. As ever, the discussion of how belief and unbelief affect the individual has degraded into a debate between Christianity and atheism, each trying to prove themselves right and/or the other wrong. So frustrating! I know that the majority religion and the majority cultural perspective in this country are Christian, but there are other ways of thinking and believing! The focus on one duality is blinkered.

[Hakluyt]

"As ever, the discussion of how belief and unbelief affect the individual has degraded into a debate between Christianity and atheism, each trying to prove themselves right and/or the other wrong. So frustrating! I know that the majority religion and the majority cultural perspective in this country are Christian, but there are other ways of thinking and believing! The focus on one duality is blinkered."

The problem is that Christianity is the majority religion in this country. And it holds a privileged position. If it did not hold that position I, for one, would be perfectly happy for people to carry on worshipping whoever they want to. I would enjoy the occasional debate- but I would largely ignore and let people get on with it. But sadly, I can't. Because Christianity impinges on my life in a way which I find unacceptable. I am not trying to prove Christians wrong. I am trying to stop them interfering in the lives of non Christians.

[SixImpossible]

I appreciate, Hakluyt, that you have not been subscribing to the superiority argument. But that's where this thread is heading.

It's posts/statements like this that get my goat:

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me".

Or people harden hearts more for whatever reason in Afghanistan?

They could easily be trusting in their works, for example, rather than accepting God's free gift to them. Remember He said if you add anything to His free gift, then you have a false gospel because you're trusting in yourself rather than in Him. It doesn't say "whosoever believes in themselves should not perish but have everlasting life", it says "whosoever believes in HIM".

In other words: Christianity is superior, any other philosophy is morally bankrupt. No room for other ways of life.

[Hakluyt]

Well, I have already been told on this thread that if I have any good, compassionate or altruistic urges they are Christian, and any selfish, venial or integrity free actions are atheist. So you'll forgive me if I don't think asking Christians to explain why God appears to have forgotten his much loved children in Afghanistan is particularly goading or offensive.

[capsium]

Well, I have already been told on this thread that if I have any good, compassionate or altruistic urges they are Christian, and any selfish, venial or integrity free actions are atheist

Well you haven't been told that by me Hak. My point was that any belief that is apart from/does not refer to/is without God is by definition an atheist one. These beliefs could be positive or negative. Beliefs which are the same as Christian (or ones belonging to any other belief system) ones could also be described as Christian beliefs (or ones belonging to any other belief system), regardless of the religion or lack of religion of the person who holds the belief. Like a Venn diagram beliefs within belief systems overlap, ownership is a moot point.

So your initial question concerning how atheism affects me is a very open question....since atheist beliefs includes any belief which does not refer to/is apart from/is without God.

[Hakluyt]

"Atheism doesn't look at good and evil, or the purpose of life. The slogan on the buses "just enjoy your life" surmises the atheist's shallow optimistic outlook, that we just need to enjoy ourselves all the time"

Oh, I just give up, I really do. Is that what you really think about atheists? Have you never met an atheist teacher, or doctor or philosopher? Have you never met an atheist aid worker, or hospice nurse? Have you any idea how insulting and offensive that post is?

[SixImpossible]

Whereas the bible is 100% accurate

No. The 'bible' - any bible - is not accurate. Various books contradict each other, they even contradict themselves. And what about the 'bibles' of other faiths? You sweep them all away!

Why must there be but one truth? Religion is faith, not fact. Ultimately, what matters is how we treat each other. How we get to that point is a personal matter, a personal truth. And it can be different for each different person.

[SixImpossible]

Evil comes from the same place as goodness. They both come from within us, from the choices we make.

[Hakluyt]

What do you mean- where does evil come from? People do bad things for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes they have been psychologically damaged in childhood. Some people think that brain chemistry can cause people to act in "evil" ways.

[Hakluyt]

Loving summer- if you are trying to make the point that atheists have no moral compass then I am not prepared to bite. You have been incredibly offensive already- and I don't want to lead you to a place where you might "stumble" again. There, isn't that "Christian" of me?

How about you tell me what you think motivates an atheist charity worker? Or don't you believe they exist?