Introducing "God" to 4 yr old (atheist family)

[EssenceOfGelfling]

Not sure if I'm just being a bit PFB about this, so please someone slap me about a bit if I am!

DH and I are atheist. Our children are free to make up their own minds about what they want to believe. I believe I will have as much influence over their beliefs as my parents have over my beliefs - i.e. none!

DS starts school in september. So far he has no experience of any religion whatsoever, never been in a church, never prayed, never had a discussion about the idea of 'God'. Not deliberately, its just not a part of our lives or our extended family.

Its not a faith school, but there will be collective worship. I don't want his first experience of religion to be in an assembly where he hasn't got a clue why people are closing their eyes and making shapes with their hands and saying 'amen'. I'd like to explain what it all means, and that its his choice what he wants to believe, but not sure where to start (without getting into the philosophical complexities of it), or even if its necessary, am I overthinking this?! (Background: he struggles with new routines and transitions... I want him to settle in easily and want to prepare him as much as is sensible to do so).

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.

I see that kind of thing happening at my church too sunnyspot.
-support for a family with a seriously ill child
-providing a meal-rota for new mums
-food for food banks
-one-off collections of food/clothing/provisions for immigrant families who arrive in the area with nothing
-many volunteers for things like street pastors and a homeless nightshelter over the winter.

In fact I've been surprised by how well the network of people within our local churches can act to respond quickly to a need within our community. There are so many people who are willing and able to come together and give time/money/skills and resources to positive things like this. And I guess I haven't seen that kind of thing happen so much in the secular world.

Local church communities can of course be very positive. It's the community connections that allow the swift reactions and activism. Atheists don't have any community so not really comparable, although there are non religious charities and community groups.

My experience of the power of churches is more about the influence of charismatic leaders. I thought it was wholly inappropriate that my sister's vicar essentially told her and her now dh to get married based on a very short acquaintance. But then that's because I don't believe god told him it was the right thing for them to do. Obviously that is what he, and my sister and BIL believe, and very powerful that was too.

Likewise I am uncomfortable with the idea that my sister (who I love very much) had moral authority with her congregation as I really don't agree with some of her opinions, and I do think that there is power in the pulpit. I had a good friend at university who was really screwed up by the preachings at one of our local churches (fairly mainstream no sex before marriage stuff, but made her feel very ashamed and conflicted about fancying a guy from the same church community, caused no end of grief that would have been easily resolved otherwise).

At it's extreme you see the sort of thing that happened in Ireland where priests were so respected in their communities that they could get away with terrible behaviour. That sort of automatic moral authority is I think very problematic.

Nooka, I think the key in protecting and nurturing ourselves and our communities is to see what is there, not what our prejudices tell us we see. We are all individuals with beliefs based on our personal knowledge and experience. No one group is better at being good people than any other. No group has a monopoly of kindness, intolerance or any other human attribute.

Dione, I'm an atheist for the reasons explained very well by nooka.

Yes churches do good things but I spend much of my week working for charity and volunteering and most of my volunteering colleagues are atheists - we just have no community to affiliate with so no obvious recognition for what we do in a way a church does.

It's a cliche but one I've found to be true - good people will always do good things, evil people will always do evil things, for good people to do evil it takes religion.

Dione, I can't imagine that anyone would disagree with that would they? I can't really see how that relates to anything I have posted though.

Knitting, whilst I agree that you need an eternal force to get good people to do bad things, I don't think that religion has exclusivity there. There are other ideologies that can be equally pernicious.

True nooka, although perhaps religion has more self-justification than others?

We are still studying what makes good people do bad things but we know that religion is not necessary. What history has shown is that when we start to see others as lesser because of religion, ethnicity, race, gender etc. the likelihood of good people doing bad things increases.

Dione this pre-set framework of "good people" and "bad things" seems to have some judgemental framework which must made critical analysis of the subject quite difficult.

Dualism of nature - good/evil is an Abrahamic/ christian construct, so this "study" you are doing seems quite pre determined and limiting from the start.

I am not sure there are "good people" or indeed "bad people", we are all shades of grey, some darker or lighter than others. "Good people" often do bad things, "bad people" often do good things.

Stealing is not something any of us would condone, but if a woman loots a shop in a war zone and steals a loaf of bread to feed her starving child is that still a "bad thing"?

The catholic Church is the biggest single financial power on earth yet abbots, bishops, cardinals and popes live in pomp and luxury drinking vintage wine while children starve in the streets and missionaries encourage women to produce more kids that they can't afford to feed.

Is that a "bad thing" - are these cardinals "good people"?

I don't judge people on their religion I judge on their actions - so someone who goes to church every week and then preaches hate about homosexuality? I judge. Even someone who tells me their a Christian but then shows no evidence of this in the way they live their life, yes I judge. Especially when they are looking down on me for my lack of faith.

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Thanks to Nooka and KnittingRocks for reminding me that the power that the church has can be used irresponsibly. It's easy for me to forget that when I see and experience so many good things at my church. I used to be a lot more cynical about Christianity, but have been totally won over to the point where I can start to feel frustrated with people who are negative about it. But I do know these things happen and have one good friend who has been very badly treated by two different church in the past and I find it amazing that her faith is still intact.

Deep, I worded my post in the terms of Knitting's quote to demonstrate that the quote has no bearing in the truth. People do not need religion to do "evil things". How great an emotional and time investment do you think you have in religion?

Knitting, great to hear it. We should judge people on their actions and who they are, rather than their religion or lack thereof. Ditto Nooka. It is good to challenge our prejudices when we become aware of them. Sadly I think this happens too infrequently.