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Original poster

Introducing "God" to 4 yr old (atheist family)

162 replies

EssenceOfGelfling · 30/05/2014 20:37

Not sure if I'm just being a bit PFB about this, so please someone slap me about a bit if I am!

DH and I are atheist. Our children are free to make up their own minds about what they want to believe. I believe I will have as much influence over their beliefs as my parents have over my beliefs - i.e. none!

DS starts school in september. So far he has no experience of any religion whatsoever, never been in a church, never prayed, never had a discussion about the idea of 'God'. Not deliberately, its just not a part of our lives or our extended family.

Its not a faith school, but there will be collective worship. I don't want his first experience of religion to be in an assembly where he hasn't got a clue why people are closing their eyes and making shapes with their hands and saying 'amen'. I'd like to explain what it all means, and that its his choice what he wants to believe, but not sure where to start (without getting into the philosophical complexities of it), or even if its necessary, am I overthinking this?! (Background: he struggles with new routines and transitions... I want him to settle in easily and want to prepare him as much as is sensible to do so).

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.

OP posts:
deepbluetr · 01/07/2014 10:01

Mmmm- not sure about that one crescent- perhaps in some families political views become imbibed with emotional, but faith by its nature is an emotionally held belief, not an intelletcual one.

I would be able to debate politics , but religion isn't really open to analysis.

At least political questions like "why can't eveything be free" have reasonable and valid answers.

Unlike asking a religious person "why does god allow children to starve to death?".

crescentmoon · 01/07/2014 10:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

deepbluetr · 01/07/2014 10:40

"so let us say there is no God then deep what would you answer to why do children starve to death?"

So you suggest it's god that decides children starve to death?

crescentmoon · 01/07/2014 11:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DioneTheDiabolist · 01/07/2014 12:34

Do you have an "emotional investment" in rubbishing religion Deep?

deepbluetr · 01/07/2014 13:24

"why are children allowed to starve to death" political and biological.

Like microbes, frogs or snakes some humans will perish along the way.
We have the resources to stop that but he political system lacks the will to do that.

I don't believe in Karma or god.

deepbluetr · 01/07/2014 13:25

Dione I detest the power that religion has over people.Religion is rotten to the core.

DioneTheDiabolist · 01/07/2014 13:51

When did you start detesting religion Deep?

KnittingRocks · 01/07/2014 13:58

Dione, intolerance is enshrined in religion as deepblue lists above - I've endured months of watching the homophobia displayed by so many religions when the gay marriage debate was ongoing, and seen the pain caused by religion when friends of mine want to make decision that "go against" their religion.

My boys will be brought up to think for themselves and not just take orders from their religious leaders. They will be brought up to understand that as long as the way you act does not affect others then it is all fine, i.e. what difference does it make to the life of the vicar down the road that my brother has sex with other men? Answer: absolutely none.

Crescentmoon, your argument is bizarre - are you saying that someone with faith would explain starving children by saying it's god's will???

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent."

Not a god I would want to worship.

DioneTheDiabolist · 01/07/2014 15:14

Acceptance is also enshrined in religion. Alongside religious opposition to gay marriage was support for the legislation. Is your evidence regarding tolerance and atheism based on personal experience Knitting?

KnittingRocks · 01/07/2014 15:45

Support for the legislation as long as gay people didn't want to get married in church!

DioneTheDiabolist · 01/07/2014 15:55

Religious people and organizations are supportive of gay marriage and are active within their religious community to see this come about. Plenty of homophobes are not at all religious. Do you have any evidence regarding tolerance that is not just personal experience Knitting?

deepbluetr · 01/07/2014 16:03

levitcus 18:22 " "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.""

The bible seems pretty clear cut on this issue.

DioneTheDiabolist · 01/07/2014 16:20

That doesn't stop Christian individuals and organizations from campaigning to change Deep. According to them Jesus said "love your neighbour as yourself" and so support gay marriage in church. To them, Jesus' word is the actual word of god, so it's clear cut to them.

deepbluetr · 01/07/2014 16:25

Cherry picking the bible. Hmm

KnittingRocks · 01/07/2014 16:47

Do you have any evidence regarding god that is not just personal experience Dione?

DioneTheDiabolist · 01/07/2014 17:01

Yes Deep, cherry picking, just as you have done.

No Knitting, I don't have any other evidence, that's why I don't try to get others to believe and I say that "I believe...". However you made a statement regarding tolerance in atheism and religion. You didn't qualify it with "In my experience..", so I asked for evidence. Do you have any evidence for this point or is it based on personal experience?

deepbluetr · 01/07/2014 17:10

dione- this isn't my book- the "Word of God"- the bible. It's not me that uses this rambling tombe as the ultimate guide to morality.

I am happy to point out inconsistencies though- and if I were you I would be more than a little nervous at using a life manual that contradicts itself so much.

I would be questioning the validity and usefulness of a similarly contradictory manual that tells me how to operate my TV, never mind one that tells me how to live my life.

deepbluetr · 01/07/2014 17:12

"levitcus 18:22 " "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.""

The bible seems pretty clear cut on this issue."

How do you explain this Dione- if christianity is so tolerant? "Abomination doesn't seem like a very tolerant word to me.

DioneTheDiabolist · 01/07/2014 17:21

The Christians I know who support gay marriage have no problem Deep. Leviticus = words of a man. What Jesus said = words of god himself. Therefore where there are inconsistencies in the bible, they check with what Jesus said and that's the answer.

How do you square your Christian = Intolerant viewpoint with the fact that many Christians and Christian organizations support gay marriage?

DoctorTwo · 01/07/2014 17:37

deepbluetr Tue 01-Jul-14 16:03:46

levitcus 18:22 " "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Why does the next line never get a mention? Oh yes, it says they should be killed. Fancy. Hmm

The first time religion got mentioned with my DCs was when the youngest was 4. She asked me if I believed in god. I replied with the question "which one?" Cue Shock "There's more than one god?" "Yep. There's thousands of the buggers".

She then asked which one I believed in and I told her I believed in none of them. "Oh, ok. Can we listen to 'loaded bananas now?" was her response. :o

KnittingRocks · 01/07/2014 17:43

Of course it's in my experience Dione, everyone's understanding of the world is based on their experience!

What I've experienced in my life means to me that either there is no god or, if he exists, he's such a vile vicious and evil god I wouldn't worship him if he was the only god in the universe. Which he isn't.

DioneTheDiabolist · 01/07/2014 19:19

I agree with you Knitting, our understanding of the world is based on our knowledge and experience, however there are some atheists on this board who believe that they only form their views after examining the empirical evidence.

Your last point is confusing. Do you believe in god or do you consider god to be like a very bad man or are you a polytheist?

nooka · 01/07/2014 20:07

It's a fairly standard view isn't it? I have no reason to believe that there are gods (or any sort) because it doesn't square with my understanding of how things work. If I accept that possibly my understanding is faulty and look at the gods on offer then I can see that most of them are pretty nasty (including the biblical portrayal of the Christian god) so I'd not wish to worship any of them/base my life around believing in any of them. Plus many of the mainstream religious 'rules' about how to behave and the relative values of different people (particularly for me, women) don't fit with my ethical values. Finally the logical inconsistencies that all end up with a 'beyond my understanding' type conclusion just rub me up the wrong way.

Hence I reject all religions and am an atheist. Fundamentally though I am an atheist becasue I don't have faith, and this for me is at he heart of things. My mother tells me that I can have faith through doubt and that this is fine and I can read all sorts of tomes by very clever people of faith and I too can be saved (or words along those lines!) but I don't doubt. I just have no faith. I suspect that this is neurobiological.

sunnyspot · 01/07/2014 20:44

I am a Christian and I support in gay marriage as do many of my Christian friends. Well over half of my atheist friends are against any form of same sex relationships. Fact.

" I detest the power religion has over people"
The "power" our church community has over people is:
Providing food for Food Banks;
Providing clothes for the homeless;
Visiting old people and listening to them when no one else will;
Sending Street Pastors onto the streets on a Friday and Saturday night to provide help to young people who have drunk too much;
Raising money to provide schools for our partner villages in third World countries.

Reaching out to those in need is what Christ teaches, and are the principles which most Christians live by.