Introducing "God" to 4 yr old (atheist family)

[EssenceOfGelfling]

Not sure if I'm just being a bit PFB about this, so please someone slap me about a bit if I am!

DH and I are atheist. Our children are free to make up their own minds about what they want to believe. I believe I will have as much influence over their beliefs as my parents have over my beliefs - i.e. none!

DS starts school in september. So far he has no experience of any religion whatsoever, never been in a church, never prayed, never had a discussion about the idea of 'God'. Not deliberately, its just not a part of our lives or our extended family.

Its not a faith school, but there will be collective worship. I don't want his first experience of religion to be in an assembly where he hasn't got a clue why people are closing their eyes and making shapes with their hands and saying 'amen'. I'd like to explain what it all means, and that its his choice what he wants to believe, but not sure where to start (without getting into the philosophical complexities of it), or even if its necessary, am I overthinking this?! (Background: he struggles with new routines and transitions... I want him to settle in easily and want to prepare him as much as is sensible to do so).

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.

PigletJohn: I beg your pardon. I'm happy to tell my children that the story of Adam and Eve is a myth, that it was made up by humans. But I also tell them that it is a myth that tells us important truths about the relationship between God and humankind.

KnittingRocks, that was the point I was making, perhaps not very well!

I was trying to point out that all parents who teach that God does not exist, are doing what they accuse the likes of me doing, but in reverse.

In other words, they aren't giving their children the freedom to make up their own minds at all.

These parents are imparting their own belief system (even if that is telling them that they themselves don't believe in God) onto their children, in the same way as I am, if you strip it all back to its bare bones.

Just to repeat, it's impossible to approach it without bias or influence.

Niminypinimy can't you see that by saying that "I am honest enough to say that I think they are wrong" you are passing on your values, which is natural and no bad thing, and as I'm trying to demonstrate, is unavoidable, even if we wish to avoid it!

specialsubject I agree. I teach my DCs respect for other religions, and respect for people with none.

I don't even take Niminy's line of saying that I think people of non-Christian faiths/no faith are wrong. I've never said that to my children, only that in the same way that I believe this, other people believe this....

And for anyone who asks me to justify my beliefs, I really don't need to, and certainly wouldn't ask anyone to justify theirs to me.

I know it's not always the case for everyone, but personally, having faith makes me more tolerant, I think. Knowing how important my faith is to me, makes me respect and understand how important faith is to others, regardless of whether their faith is the same or different to my own.

My dsis is an atheist, which I respect. But, she can't talk about religion without saying things like "it's a load of old bull!" Her two sons and DH hold the same views as my Dsis, and also the same attitudes towards religion. If it's discussed it's in a "I'm right and your wrong," almost mocking way, as if I'm not very clever or completely gullible for having faith.

I would never talk about her atheist beliefs in that way - they are as important to her, and as much a part of her, as my faith is to me, and deserves the same amount of respect as I think my faith deserves.

I don't mean to sound self righteous, although I think I probably do .

Misfitless, you've misunderstood my post. I was agreeing with you not disagreeing! I wouldn't say that atheists are wrong either. I would say 'some people say that God doesn't exist, but we believe he does, and that he loves and cares for us'. I agree with you that we ought to pass on our values to our children, as well as teaching them to respect others' opinions.

Oh sorry niminy, I'm easily confused!

nimin, I disagree with your post suggesting that we hope our children grow up with our values. Comparing political views to religion is not the same thing at all. I actually don't care whether my children decide to vote a different way than I do, they may decide to become vegetarian- that's fine too.

Faith is s different concept. Brining up oour children in faith we are asking them to believe the unbelievable, to lay themselves open for judgement. Athesism is not a faith. Brining up a child as an atheist is not passing on a view. You can't indoctrinate a non- faith.

Athesism is not a faith. Brining up a child as an atheist is not passing on a view. You can't indoctrinate a non- faith.

Are you an atheist, deepbluetr?

Bringing up a child as an atheist is not passing on a view? I don't see how telling your DCs that there is no God, can be seen as anything other than passing your atheist views on to your children?

Whether you bring up your children as atheists or Catholics/Muslims whatever, you are passing on your beliefs.

If you're an atheist, you believe that there is no God, and you pass on your belief that there is no God, call it a view if you prefer, but it doesn't actually change the fact that you are imparting your opinions/views onto your children.

Also, if you are an atheist, you are a classic example of what I was talking about upthread...

That atheists ime tend to be very "I'm right, you're wrong," whereas, as a Catholic, I would never say that you are wrong:

Brining up oour children in faith we are asking them to believe the unbelievable

This is your opinion, but it's not mine, or that of billions of people across the globe who have faith in their religion.

• sorry, not faith in their religion, but faith.

"you pass on your belief that there is no God"

That's not a belief. Anymore that I have a "belief" that hedgehogs don't fly.
Unless you can show me proof that your god exists then we can safely assume that he doesn't.

you say that "conceiving of God as an entity that might be detected (or not) within the cosmos" is an error.

So how then might we describe the concept? As a creation of human imagination?

I'm Heathen, DH is Catholic. DS is young now, but if he has any questions about God in the future, I'll just tell him to "go ask Daddy" as I have no bloody clue about religiin outside Life of Brian

I'm not going to tell him it's rubbish, or anything else negative, just: Daddy believes, I don't, and when you're older and it becomes clearer, then you will either believe or not.

Oh that old chestnut !!!

Call it a non-belief, call it whatever makes you happy. The fact is, you're still passing on your values. You're telling me (and maybe your DCs, if you have any,) that is no God, assuming that only you are right.

Sorry, elQuinto forgot to press refresh so that last post wasn't in response to your post.

"I'm Heathen"

But my view/opinion isn't a belief.

You either believe, or you don't. It is that simple.

I am not anti-belief or anti-religion.

If DS finds himself erring towards belief when he is older (he is only 2 now, so many years ahead), then that is fine. DH can explain all the stories, the catechism, hell, the stations of the cross etc. I'll explain that no, I don't believe - not all this "it's another fairy story/bearded gnome in the sky/nonsense". Just that: Daffy believes; I don't.

DH and I had a HUGE conversation about religion very early on in our relationship, it lasted three days face to face, then several months through letters (we've been together a long time), and the ultimate theory DH wound up with was that "they didn't get me (elquinto) young enough".

Er.... I think I meant Daddy ^^ not Daffy!

I wasn't inferring God is akin to Daffy Duck

How would you explain it then Misfit? If you imagine you didn't believe, how would you explain it without giving any hint of an opinion one way or another?

I don't think it's possible, beccajoh.

My DS has come home school and told me he is Christian. I've reacted in the same sort of way as when he told me he was a Transformer or a dog (both if which phases lasted longer than the Christian one).
"That's nice, minicake, what else did you do today?".

Oh I agree niminy and misfitless, I intend to bring my children up as atheists - I am bringing them up as atheists in fact.

I bite my tongue about the religious stuff they come up with at the moment but as they get older will be able to explain my understanding of the world much better - I have already explained to them that religion was invented in a time of ignorance and superstition when we knew nothing of how the world worked and needed to invent a deity not only to explain nature but also as a power system, still used and abused to this day.

It's a lot to take on when you're 6 though!

Do you hope that they will be tolerant and respectful of all people Knitting?

Is it important to you that even when people have fundamentally different outlooks on life, religion, sexuality, whatever, that ultimately we should aim to foster understanding, compassion, tolerance of each other in our children, rather than point out each others differences as negative things to be scorned?

Religious people often get accused of being narrow minded/bigoted/lacking in tolerance and understanding of others. In my experience, though, these character traits are just as likely to be found in atheists.

I wouldn't ever want any of my children to look down/ridicule or make anyone feel uncomfortable regardless of whether said person is religious or not. I certainly have experience of feeling like this on mn and in RL, and it's not pleasant.

I hope they will never do that, I try to make sure it won't happen, but there are no guarantees.

Having said that, there are a whole load of unfavourable traits that I could claim to have fostered, but will pass, if it's all the same .