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Original poster

Catholic Baptism problems

180 replies

smartypants1000 · 20/04/2014 18:02

Basically, we have our daughters' Baptism booked for late May, outside of our Parish (where Godparents live and where we are originally from). For various reasons (serious bereavements for two of the Godparents, the girls are aged 4 and 2 - it has always been the intention to have them Baptised. It seemed pretty straightforward but we've now been told that we need the permission of our Parish Priest. This shouldn't have been a problem, except that he won't give his permission.

We moved into the Parish less than 3 months ago, and he requires that we be registered members of the Parish for 3 months before we can apply for Baptism. Then, he requires us to attend a preparation course here, and won't accept us attending preparation in the Parish where we will be having our dd's Baptised. he also requires baptism certificates for all Godparents - they don't live locally, and probably don't know where their certificates are. But the main problem is the 3 month rule. I have attended Mass with the children every Sunday since we moved here in Feb. But he requires both of us to attend for 3 months before he will allow us to attend the preparation course, and since that only runs at certain times, will not allow us to have the Baptism as planned - it has been a military operation getting a date when everyone can make it, and after so many problems I don't want to delay, as it is very important to me that the girls are Baptised :-(. Dh is Catholic, but he isn't practising. he is happy for the dc to be raised Catholic. I joined the church as an adult (prior to meeting dh) and it is so important to me to raise the children with faith.

I'm feeling very unwelcome in the Church at the moment, very upset about this, feeling that my children are not considered good enough. Can the Parish really deny us permission? Can they really just impose these arbitary rules? When ds was Baptised, it was very friendly, welcoming and straightforward. Is there anything I can do, or do I have to accept that the Baptism will not happen?

OP posts:
gingerdodger · 20/04/2014 23:28

The OP has not just appeared. She is a practising Catholic who just happens to have moved house.

zzzzz · 20/04/2014 23:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Annunziata · 20/04/2014 23:30

Of course, because the best Catholics have halos above their heads to show just how often they've been to Mass in the past 10 years!

Original poster
smartypants1000 · 20/04/2014 23:31

No, I had no idea about registering as a Parish member - the two Parishes I have lived in before this had no such requirement, and as I said, i was not raised a Catholic (dh was, and he's never heard of it either).

When I approached my first ever church to ask about initiation into the Church there was nothing but welcome - of course I spent months preparing for the Easter Vigil and reception into the Church, but there was never any question of "how long have you been coming, have you registered?" etc etc. When we got married, and when we had our ds baptised, there was never any of this - just welcome, and of course we did preparation, and I'm pleased that we did, I welcomed it because it was helpful. I suppose the contrast makes me sad.

OP posts:
zzzzz · 20/04/2014 23:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gingerdodger · 20/04/2014 23:33

She doesn't need a halo. Her previous PP would be able to confirm she practised her faith regularly - at least as much as mass attendance ever could....

Original poster
smartypants1000 · 20/04/2014 23:33

Would it make you happier if my previous Parish priest wrote a letter to confirm that we have attended mass regularly, Annunziata? Because that's what I've suggested to this Priest. I'm not even asking him to baptise the girls, just to give his formal permission for a Baptism that has been planned and prepared for prior to our house move!

OP posts:
zzzzz · 20/04/2014 23:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ReallyTired · 20/04/2014 23:35

"Really would have trouble seeing Jesus turning this one away if I'm honest. I think he'd have more trouble with a priest putting barriers in the way than with baptising the OP's children."

"13Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them.

14Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there."

Matthew 19

I don't believe that infant baptism is essential for a child to enter the kingdom of heaven. Devil's advocate (aka protestant) might argue that adult baptism by full immersion is what Jesus wanted. I realise that there are christians who believe that unbaptised babies go to hell. I believe that Hindu babies who die go to heaven as they are too young to reject God.

I had problems getting my daughter baptised in a C of E church and I changed churches to a more sympathetic church. The catholic church does not have a monopoly on unreasonable priests. We are asked to attend two (very boring) baptism classes and a service of thanks giving. We missed the service of thanksgiving as dd had diahorrea and vomiting. The priest told us that we had to attend the baptism classes again.

At that point I made a formal complaint to the church warden. Do catholic churches have any kind of complaints proceedure? In the c of E church wardens can over rule the priest on decisions like baptising a child if proper proceedure has been followed. In the church of england there are clear rules on who has the right to be baptised in a particular church.

DD was baptised at three and half years old in a different church. Infact she organised her own baptism and choose her godparents. To top it all she organised for her 43 year old Dad to be baptised at the same time.

Floggingmolly · 20/04/2014 23:35

And it would be the same for your children, op, if so many people hadn't taken the piss in an attempt to get their children into what they evidently feel is a better school.
Unfortunately for all the genuine cases, this is the result.

Annunziata · 20/04/2014 23:35

Yes, but OP seems to have only emailed him this weekend. It's the most important weekend in the Church year, I am glad he is not checking his emails!

whatcolour · 20/04/2014 23:35

My issue was that the priest never got to know us as a family or make an effort to discuss why we wanted our children baptised. We are not married but my parents were strongly RC and I was brought up that way. I want my children to have faith, but also a multi faith upbringing / school for many many reasons too long to go into. The PP was on a power trip as he wrongly assumed (I think) that wad were trying to get into the big RC school. My kids go to school elsewhere. I take them to this and another RC church. Hardly any other kids are ever in church....

gingerdodger · 20/04/2014 23:36

We should welcome them with open arms. We should rejoice. zzzzz thank you. You have summed up a Christian welcome beautifully.

Annunziata · 20/04/2014 23:37

Yes, OP, that is a good suggestion. But I'm sure you aren't expecting an immediately answer during Holy Week!

Original poster
smartypants1000 · 20/04/2014 23:38

That's precisely why I haven't approached him in person this weekend, Annunziata! I did send an email yesterday, because this was the first I'd heard of requiring his permission - I was very surprised when he replied on easter Sunday, as I didn't think it would be appropriate to ask him after mass this morning when he would be so busy!

OP posts:
Annunziata · 20/04/2014 23:38

And it would be the same for your children, op, if so many people hadn't taken the piss in an attempt to get their children into what they evidently feel is a better school. Unfortunately for all the genuine cases, this is the result.

I agree with this. I really truly wish we could rejoice with all the babies and children brought to church, but how often have we all seen them all appear and then disappear?

Original poster
smartypants1000 · 20/04/2014 23:41

I agree that it is a pity that people have used Baptism to gain entry to what they consider to be a better school. I'm not sure why they would want their children instructed in a faith they don't share, it confuses me.

OP posts:
gingerdodger · 20/04/2014 23:43

I would have thought the message of Holy Week and Easter would be for all Christians to do all they can to welcome 2 little ones into the church and receive the gift of the sacrament of baptism.

I hope I am not the only Catholic who thinks that the issues raised on this thread are so out of touch with the Easter message.

Annunziata · 20/04/2014 23:47

But Ginger our relationship with God isn't like that. We don't just ask for something and expect it to happen. It's reciprocal, isn't it?

The church should welcome all the children.
The parents of those children should also understand what baptism means and respect the faith are signing up to. If this is 3 months attendance, then I don't think there is anything wrong in that.

I get really upset by it too smartypants.

gingerdodger · 20/04/2014 23:47

Well I really do rejoice about those who appear and disapear. They have received the wonderful gift of baptism and, I would hope, a warm welcome if and when they ever come back to a regular practise of faith or need support from a loving church community.

zzzzz · 20/04/2014 23:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gingerdodger · 20/04/2014 23:51

And just to say I am not just appearing and disappearing in this thread but I am so tired and needed to go to bed an hour ago Smile but this thread made me feel like I just had to respond.

God bless and Happy Easter all.

Italiangreyhound · 20/04/2014 23:53

I'm not Roman Catholic but I am a Christian and I would say go higher, go to the Bishop and check this out.

Sounds really silly, unwelcoming and frankly very off putting. Not saying the protestant churches probably can't do the same when they feel like it!

Very sad. Hope you prevail and get the girls baptised. I always think it is quite funny because in the C of E anyone can baptise an infant and of course some very sick babies are baptised in hospital with none of this preparation, I am assuming their baptisms are just as valid! Just not very welcoming. Hope you prevail.

Lucked · 21/04/2014 00:03

It was decided a while ago that there should be some form of baptismal preparation but it is left to the diocese what form it takes. Here it is a 45 min evening talk. My priest did say he had heard of 16 week courses in America!

All priests I have ever heard discuss the matter have all been happy to baptise any child whether a regular attender or not, they relish the opportunity to get the family into the church and hope it will encourage them to attend and not frighten them away.

I would also be tempted to take this higher up the diocese, I would be shocked if this was the policy. Could you approach another local church/ priest?

Lucked · 21/04/2014 00:11

Oh and as for your DH attending church just tell him NO. He cannot insist that your DH attend church - what if he simply refuses, are your children never to be baptised? that could be your 'in' with speaking to the Bishop, that you are at a stalemate with your priest and DH. It is really serious as that could cause undue stress on a marriage.