Catholic Baptism problems

[smartypants1000]

Basically, we have our daughters' Baptism booked for late May, outside of our Parish (where Godparents live and where we are originally from). For various reasons (serious bereavements for two of the Godparents, the girls are aged 4 and 2 - it has always been the intention to have them Baptised. It seemed pretty straightforward but we've now been told that we need the permission of our Parish Priest. This shouldn't have been a problem, except that he won't give his permission.

We moved into the Parish less than 3 months ago, and he requires that we be registered members of the Parish for 3 months before we can apply for Baptism. Then, he requires us to attend a preparation course here, and won't accept us attending preparation in the Parish where we will be having our dd's Baptised. he also requires baptism certificates for all Godparents - they don't live locally, and probably don't know where their certificates are. But the main problem is the 3 month rule. I have attended Mass with the children every Sunday since we moved here in Feb. But he requires both of us to attend for 3 months before he will allow us to attend the preparation course, and since that only runs at certain times, will not allow us to have the Baptism as planned - it has been a military operation getting a date when everyone can make it, and after so many problems I don't want to delay, as it is very important to me that the girls are Baptised :-(. Dh is Catholic, but he isn't practising. he is happy for the dc to be raised Catholic. I joined the church as an adult (prior to meeting dh) and it is so important to me to raise the children with faith.

I'm feeling very unwelcome in the Church at the moment, very upset about this, feeling that my children are not considered good enough. Can the Parish really deny us permission? Can they really just impose these arbitary rules? When ds was Baptised, it was very friendly, welcoming and straightforward. Is there anything I can do, or do I have to accept that the Baptism will not happen?

Sounds ridiculous but some priests make you jump through hoops for the power of it. We didn't have to go to prep as we go every week to Mass and the priest was happy that we understood
When we moved into the parish ten years ago though the priest was a curmudgeonly old bugger and put every barrier he could into signing off our marriage stuff.

I think it is normal for your parish priest to do the paperwork if you are having a sacrament conducted (or whatever the word is) by another priest. So if you want to have a marriage consolidation abroad do expletive, your parish priest does the paper work, or of you want to get your DC baptised in your hometown Mexico where your family and the godparents live, but are currently working and living in the uk, your parish priest in the uk will do the paperwork and preparation course. There's no need to make you jump through unnecessary hoops though.

I see, thanks for explaining. Let's see how I get on. I don't really want to have them baptised CofE as I will want them to take First Communion etc, and they will come to Mass with me so it would be odd for them not to be Catholic...but I'm not sure what I'll do if we can't get permission, part of me would rather baptise outside the Catholic church than delay it indefinitely.

Sorry- posting on phone!

Consolidation = convalidation

I'm not Catholic so don't have much useful to say but as someone else in Luton I just wanted to say I'm sorry you've come to hate the place, especially as you mention a CofE school so you're probably very local to me. I hadn't realised the Catholic schools had become so oversubscribed but even if they have that is no reason for the priest to be so obstructive.

I really hope you get some closure on this smartypants. It wasn't even our parish priest who baptised ds - it was the University chaplain and he didn't ask for permission from the PP. Given that your dc's godparents were going through such a time and you've had a recent move I'd hope there would be some leeway. We didn't have a baptismal preparation course - three days (with no kids attending) is ridiculous. Longer than my marriage guidance course! I don't think Pope Francis would be happy about this - go above the bishop and contact the Pope. His Holiness will probably baptise them himself!

Sorry Oddboots, I'm sure Luton has a lovely side. We've only been here a couple of months, I'm from a very rural area and just homesick, it isn't personal to the place - everything has been difficult, registering with a GP, finding a school, seeing a midwife, and now Church....I'm sure it will get easier! DH's work brought us here, quite a big move from hundreds of miles away.

Oh don't be sorry, I've lived here all my life so it's all I know but I know my dh found it a culture shock so we've agreed to move away once our children have left sixth form. If you ever need to bend the ear of someone local just drop me a line, especially is you are where I think you might be, on the airport side of town. :)

I understand what it's like to be homesick. I had to move with DH's job too and it takes time to get everything settled. We moved pre-ds so it was easier.

Are you tied to that parish? Could you attend a different Catholic church in Luton?

I am sorry you are homesick, but I don't think your priest is out of line.

Too many people turn up and baptise the baby for a party or a school place.
3 months attendance isn't a long time.
If your DH isn't practising, he can't live up to the promise he will have to make when he baptises them.
Preparation is important.
Godparents have to be Catholic, the only way to help prove this is baptism certificates.

Annunziata, Godparents don't have to be Catholic. One of ds's godparents is a member of the Church of Ireland. My husband is Presbyterian. If smarty pants can show that it's not school related and given that she's had a recent move then really discretion should be shown.

It's generally accepted that they should be practising Catholics, trinners.
Otherwise what's the point?

But how can you make the baptismal promises if you don't?

Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, suffered death and was buried, rose again from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father?

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?

We have one Catholic Godparent for each and one Christian witness.

It's not the 3 months thing I have an issue with Annunziata, it is the fact that he wants us to be "registered" parishoners, so apparently because I have not filled in a new parishoners' form, the 2 months I have attended since we moved here don't count, plus I've attended Mass every Sunday and Holy Day barring illness since I joined the Church as an adult in 2001. My DH was practising when we married, and when we had DS baptised. he has fallen out with the Catholic church and doesn't wish to attend himself - I can't force a grown man, much as I would like him to come. But he has made a commitment at ds's Baptism, that he will honour, and will honour the same promises he will make at the baptism of our daughters, because he knows it important to me that they are raised Catholic. I think many families only have one Catholic parent?

The main issue with the "3 month rule" for us, is that it is preventing a Baptism from taking place that has been arranged for months, before we moved out of that Parish and into this one - because he won't let us begin preparation until the 3 months has been satisfied, we will miss the Spring prep course and have to prepare in the Autumn. He will not allow us to attend preparation in the other Parish, which is as and when.

No, zzzz, I wouldn't tell the Priest that I'd have them Baptised CofE instead! It is important to me that they have a Christian baptism, with the Godparents we have chosen as their mentors. It won't happen if I don't keep to the date, as it has taken so much trouble to organise (Godparents living in different locations, one of them about to move further away, a set of Grandparents attending from abroad). It's taken me a year to get everyone able to attend, and I want them Baptised. I consider myself Christian first, Catholic second (I know people's position on this will vary a lot) - but I don't want them baptised into a church that thinks it is an exclusive club, and considers them not good enough. Also, it isn't delaying the schedule, it is imposing conditions we cannot meet, such as attending the prep course without the children. We won't be able to have the baptised if the Priest can't be flexible on that, for example. I'd rather bring them up in a church where they are welcomed. I joined the Catholic church as an adult, so they would still have that option should they choose it. I wasn't brought up Christian though.

Annunziata, this isn't where I'm coming from at all as I am a practising Catholic - but my opinion is that if parents want their children baptised, for whatever reason, then the best thing the Church can do is be loving and welcoming, as I believe jesus would have been - otherwise they will have a negative experience of the Church and any hope of influence is lost?

There is nothing wrong with only wanting to baptise parishioners, especially if it is in a school area. Imagine how many parents with 4 year olds turn up and declare they've been going all their lives?

Are you forgetting this a sacrament? Its so important and it really, really means something. It's a promise to bring your child up in a certain way and it should be respected. There is nothing wrong with only welcoming those who are truly serious about this.

It's not just the baptism you should sign up to. It's a way of life.

Why is the 3 month wait so excruciating for you, when you've waited 4 years already? The party, knees up, celebration extravaganza, whatever you want to call it is totally seperate from the actual Baptism ceremony itself, you know?
You could have had it done without fuss anytime you felt like it, and had the party to celebrate at a time it suited everybody else.
I can see why the priest had little patience with your explanation for the delay, tbh.

Floggingmolly, should be does not mean has to be. Godparents can be witnesses if not Catholic and can witness the baptismal promises. In fact we had to have proxy godparents due to illness.

smartypants, I'm signing off now. Just wanted to wish you the best of luck and from one Catholic to another I hope things work out and your dc have a lovely baptism and that they have memories to treasure.

I disagree, why shouldn't we ask if a family really wants to enter the church or if they really want into the best school?