Who Wrote The Gospels?

[headinhands]

"Matthew contains 606 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Luke contains 320 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Of the 55 verses of Mark which Matthew does not reproduce, Luke reproduces 31; therefore there are only 24 verses in all of Mark not reproduced somewhere in Matthew or Luke."

A good diagram here

rabbitrisen, how do you know all this?

Jesus of Nazareth had some excellent ideas, and was voted Son of God by a show of hands at the First Council of Nicaea in 325, where the canon was decided. By men. The early Church was united and propagated by Paul with Peter in Rome, pulling together the various enclaves established by the diaspora of the disciples. It's pretty easy to separate the actual teachings of the Nazarene, which are pretty amazing - being inclusive, non-violent and supportive of diversity and minorities - with the prophecy-forfilling stuff put in to 'validate' Jesus as the Messiah.

Faith is very important, and a great support to those who need it. Personally, my faith is in the capability of humans to work for the common good. I don't need the bribe of an 'afterlife' to work for that - but others might. Healing? If you have a positive attitude, you can move mountains and faith will help with that - prayer, as a focus for collective support, will help as well.

The thing I really detest is the 'charismatic' churches, which is all about 'me, me, me' and nothing about the social conscious Jesus preached.

I believe the Christian tradition is important in our society, but I do not believe in God as anything other than an abstract construct to define the good side of the good/evil dichotomy in the human psyche. Afterlife? no. This is it. maker the most of it. Be excellent to one another.

Casula. As I was wrinting it, I was thinking that I can no longer remember which part of the bible I have read about that in.

Oh joy. Tomorrow I am now going to have to go and track it down

rabbitrisen

"atthestrokeoftwelve. You do believe in God, but have chosen for many years to worship the other side"
How can you say that? I don't believe in god, or any gods.

So every child has a moment where if they died at that point they go to heaven but if they died 1 second later they go to hell. A child is murdered by their parent 1 second after the 'auto heaven entry cut off point'. Their parent? They finds Jesus and dies a year later. They go to heaven. That scenario is morally repugnant on every level but is a scenario that will have happened according to the system you think god uses. Therefore the god you describe is morally repugnant and inferior to me (he's inferior to you too )

I think that I have the same answer to both of you.

Neither of you believes in Him. To you both it is all a load of made up nonsense, so it doesnt matter and is irrelevant.

at some point we become responsible

I agree. But I don't think anyone deserves hell or whatever eternal torture chamber a particular religion has devised to scare it's followers into submission. If my 15 year old was caught shoplifting would I think she deserved hell? You're kidding me aren't you?! See. I'm nicer than your god.

The right way is that we fall in line with Him, not the other way round.

neither of you believes in him

It's you and what you think that I'm interested in. You could be talking about any god and it wouldn't matter. What matters is that on one hand you claim your god to be just and perfect but on the other hand the system of punishment that you claim it to use is wholly unfair and barbaric.

We have until our death[whenever that may be] to repent.

fall in line

And every Christian has a different opinion on where that line is. Let me guess, you reckon you've pretty much got it right don't you.

we have until our death

Which is why the scenario I posted earlier illustrates how messed up it is.

It is the same as in all aspects in life. At some point we become responsible for our own actions. Has to be really, even in our ordinary lives.

Or do you think that no one ever has responsibilty for themselves and their actions?

become responsible for our own actions

That describes most people. I say sorry when I upset people. I pay my bills and so on. No one could say I wasn't being responsible for my own actions. Likewise I'm sure you are too.

do you think that no one ever has responsibility for themselves

Of course not, how ridiculous.

I think that the timing of personal responsibility of age 12 or 13 seems to come from the Jewish law.

Also there is James 4 v 17
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+4%3A17&version=NRSV

rabbitrisen: The right way is that we fall in line with Him, not the other way round.

Would this include committing filicide or even genocide?

I think that the timing of personal responsibility of age 12 or 13 seems to come from the Jewish law.

In England and Wales criminal responsibility starts at 10. Look the point isn't if and when people should be held accountable, of course they should. The issue I have with the system you have described is the punishment. Are you happy with the thought of someone going to hell just because they didn't believe in the same god as you? Because that's the deciding factor isn't it according to your belief system. It's not about a personal responsibility for saying sorry to anyone we upset, it comes down to believing in the right god so the only thing you're really going to be held accountable for according to your belief system is what god you believe exists and that is morally disgusting.

We are not allowed to do much of what God does Casual. He does the punishment for disobedience. That is not our job as christians. Our job as christians is to love. And not judge.
Hate the sin. But love the sinner.

We will all have the chance to know that God is God at some point, and to make definite choices, before the hell part.

rabbitrisen, we can kill if told to by god though. In fact we must because he demands obedience. So if god tells us to kill our children or other people's children then morally that is the right thing to do because we have to fall in line with him.

Lots of examples of that. See Abraham, see Lot, see Elisha killing the children who laughed at his baldness, see the Israelites conquering their neighbours, in fact see most of the OT.

Morally, god is down there in the gutter.

The concept of hell is morally repugnant, full stop, and such a blatant method of social control and mental abuse it's not surprising that some Christians these days are falling over themselves to deny that it has any part in 'real' Christianity.

But the sad truth is that the concept is very well entrenched in Christianity, and not just in the dim and distant past.

love the sinner

The same sinner that god has organised eternal punishment for because they don't believe he exists or believe a different god? How come we are more loving than god? That's a bit messed up.

we all have he chance to know

If the system you outline is so fair and equal isn't it surprising that most people in Afghanistan reject your god in favour of a different one?