Who Wrote The Gospels?

[headinhands]

"Matthew contains 606 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Luke contains 320 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Of the 55 verses of Mark which Matthew does not reproduce, Luke reproduces 31; therefore there are only 24 verses in all of Mark not reproduced somewhere in Matthew or Luke."

A good diagram here

^I mean copied out.

It is kind of a shame that the chance of an afterlife is so dependant on some guys who got together and decided what would go in the bible.

I mean yeah if it was god deciding, but you know what people are like and everyone who lived after that had only that bible as the clue to everlasting life.

It just seems so unfair. I mean look at the poor Muslims. They honestly think Muhammad was sent by the god of the bible. If only god had made that clear then all those millions of Muslims (and Hindus, Buddhists etc) wouldn't have been led astray and wouldn't have lost their chance. (Not to mention all the Christian denominations who guessed wrong)

God left it up to those guys who wrote/compiled the bible and they didn't write down the right bits to make it clear. So many will lose their chance of heaven because of it.

You know, if he was god he ought to have seen that disaster coming and avoided it.

I'm sure we've talked about this before head

I like to discuss interesting subjects more than once, same way I like to hear more than one person's thoughts on a matter. One wonders if my question would have met with the same consternation had it been a question you felt comfortable with?

The process used to collect NT books together was rigorous, consistent and agreed by the great majority of believers. Basically, the conditions books had to fulfil to get in the canon were....

How is using the most prevalent opinion ever the way to ascertain truth? Why would god bother to come to earth, which he needed to do (because we're so helpless/lost/stupid without him etc), and then expect us to use our own reasoning to work out what stuff was inspired by him and what stuff was made up?

Oh head I wasn't consternated

Just lighthearted chit chat.

I actually enjoy this subject, and like you love to hear people's thoughts on the matter and talk about it a lot.

Back later to address the above :)

Sorry the bit I should have referred to is about 33 mins in, in the documentary.

Back I think the Bible contains some very big concepts, which can be difficult express in words. The Bible essentially shows us God and people's relationship with Him. I am not surprised that He is difficult to fully comprehend from our own human perspective. However to believe in Christ and what He did for us, is relatively simple...the understanding develops over time.

very big concepts, which can be difficult express in words

No, I think words are the best/only way we have of expressing big concepts when we really care about getting the message across and not being vague. I learnt how to do trigonometry via words, the medium of dance wouldn't have done it. ;)

It wasn't just the prevalent opinion though, that doesn't give it the weight it deserves. The thing to note is that the council did not actively decide the canon as in choosing what went in, what they felt like etc - they simply gave official recognition to what was already accepted as canonical. Decades before the council came together, Athanasius wrote a letter in which he listed the books which the church saw as having authority, and they were identical to the 27 books later decided upon. The church gave weight to what was already known and practised and widely accepted, and had been since extremely early after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

As for why God would come to earth and then leave it to our own reasoning - well, we are fairly intelligent as beings. I think God gave us a fair amount of credit there Yes, God could have written it in the sky/left it until the age of the internet/written it on stone tablets which were forever preserved. But there is an element whereby it's messier than that. Life is messier than that, and there is the faith element as well (as in, faith wouldn't come into it if written in the sky etc) Actually, what God did through the bible is incredible; in terms of ancient writings there are no other that begin to compare when it comes to the sheer number of documents distributed and discovered from early on, much earlier than with any other ancient figure of note, cf Alexander the Great et al. God's way of communicating in a world completely unlike ours, with different ways of communicating, ie oral tradition, has somehow managed to break into our social media led world and remains unshakeable in millions of lives.

Music, art and dance can be very communicative too. All have been used for religious purposes.

Maths uses mathematical symbols and number to describe relationships. There is numerical symbolism also in the Bible.

My point is some writing has so much depth of meaning you cannot glebe it all just from one read. You engage with the text, through your own imagination, mull it over, find out about the historical context, mull it over some more.

I learnt how to do trigonometry via words, the medium of dance wouldn't have done it

That's going in my top ten favourite MN posts, that is.

But caps if you want to convey something super important then words are you're best bet. Imagine 999 operators deciding to use pieces of instrumental music instead of words and assuming callers will understand and expecting them to listen to the piece of music several times before gleaning the fullness of CPR. Silly isn't it.

CPR is usually demonstrated, or at the very least there are diagrams too, along with the words.

My point is gaining understanding is a complex process. You relate the words to your own experiences to find meaning. The words are interactive. There can be sub text, imagery and symbolism which affect the imagination along with the subconscious, too.

caps the scenario I describe is one where the information is immediately necessary and where the situation doesn't allow the time to access visual instructions. If the caller could see and follow diagrams the visual would be clear, precise and unambiguous. The cogent diagram would largely be used for everyone. You wouldn't have callers pumping entirely the wrong parts of bodies.

Sorry head skim read your post, without realising.

But you must see how understanding is not always simple, we are not talking about a set of instructions for one case scenario. The Bible describes God and our relationship with Him.

Just caught up on many posts.

headinhands asked if a bay dies because he doesnt have enough faith?
No. And young people up to approx 13 go to Heaven.

Cote said that she would believe if Jesus appeared[or something similar to that].
Great.
Many people did when Jesus raised Lazurus from the dead[happened to read that part today]. Many did, not all though. Because it is not just about belief, it is about attitude as well. Some people will not bow down to God in this life, no matter what.

atthestrokeoftwelve. You do believe in God, but have chosen for many years to worship the other side. And that is why you do need forgiveness from God.
But He is gracious and forgives people, if they ask for forgiveness. No matter what they have done. [big smile]

It seems to me that it becomes complicated when explanations are sought for God's erratic behaviour.

God is just.
Look at things from his point of view and not ours.

I'm sure that, if he actually exists, his view is that he is just. I'm sure just about all abusive partners think the same way.

God's way of communicating in a world completely unlike ours, with different ways of communicating, ie oral tradition, has somehow managed to break into our social media led world and remains unshakeable in millions of lives.

Well he didn't do anything special did he. Just told some people some things and let them remember it the way they remembered anything else. It's not like that is all that came down from that time.

I think we have some pretty old stuff from China too and Egypt.

And the other gods did as well in informing the Muslims and the Hindus.

Jesus was special. He suffered and died to Save us. He rose from the dead.

..and still is.

approx 13

So if 12 year old Courtney dies on Tuesday she is accepted into heaven. If she dies 24 hrs later on her 13th birthday she goes to hell. And that's fair how???

Lots of people have suffered a lot more than Jesus did, including lots of children.

capsium: Jesus was special. He suffered and died to Save us. He rose from the dead.

Mere assertion.

So if 12 year old Courtney dies on Tuesday she is accepted into heaven. If she dies 24 hrs later on her 13th birthday she goes to hell. And that's fair how???

At some point, we become "responsible" for our actions. Maybe it happens at different times for different children. But that is roughly the answer.