Does anyone else find the anti denominational school stance depressing?

[Plaza]

I recently read a thread where the majority seemed to agree that state schools should be secular and denominational schools done away with altogether.

I found this pretty depressing, no least as it would have been my personal view about a year ago... I have since moved my DC to a COE school and cannot praise it or the Christian ethics enough.. What do you think?

Here's a compromise. How about people of faith are only allowed to use faith schools. And everyone else is allowed to apply to any school their conscience will allow.

"I think a lot of people are scared of their culture and faith/beliefs being watered down or done away with completely through mass forced secularisation of schools."

This is entirely meaningless. Do you write bylines for the daily mail, or speeches for UKIP?

You have no evidence for that, it is a guess.

You also forget that for a HUGE amount of people in the UK, CofE is NOT their culture or beliefs!

If you go on the evidence of this thread and the other linked, the answer is that the vast majority of people want schools in the UK to be secular.

Nicetabbard -

There is more than one faith! Unbelievable, I know.

Not sure why you feel the need to be sarcastic? I was responding to this comment:

You have an equal chance at a non affiliated school and an advantage at a religious one. Is that fair?

You aren't listening, are you.

Actually I don't think you are. I asked what people think would be a good compromise on the current system. I am not disputing that it's 'poor'.

I don't think OP is really engaging with views other than hers TBH.

You haven't answered any of my questions.

There should be no state funded faith schools. I object to education and religion being conflated. More, I object to beliefs being presented as fact thanks to the tax payer.

Teach your kids about your god on your own time. Or send them to a private school of your religion.

State schools should mean non denomination.

Or anyone elses really.

OP, what "Christian ethics" are you most pleased with?

NiceTabard -

Do you write bylines for the daily mail, or speeches for UKIP?

Umm, no I don't... I think that's uncalled for. I am thinking of reasons why people with a faith choose faith schools. Sorry, can I not speculate on why I feel people would do that?

If faith is so vital, why not have faith hospitals? In my hometown in Germany there really were a Catholic and a Protestant hospital. Only difference i could tell was the Catholic one was an old building and had nuns walking about and the Protestant one was newber and flashier looking. Weird, but no weirder than having faith schools.

my nearest primary school is c of e. We are not. That irks me a lot. I can't send ds to his nearest primary school because I won't play along with Church 'pretendance' to get him in. The next nearest is a public school so he can't go there because I can't afford it - don't mind that as that isn't paid for out of public (including my) money.

If people want to send their chosen to a faith school that is fine but it should not come from the public purse on the one hand yet exclude certain people on the other.

NiceTabard -

I don't think OP is really engaging with views other than hers TBH.

Can you explain which views I am not engaging with? And likewise are you engaging with mine?

If your faith or culture are watered down by the provision of secular education then I would suggest that they weren't particularly strong to begin with. Religious people in the US appear to survive despite the provision of secular education by the public sector.

Yes learn

The Jesuits got something right - give me a boy until he is 7 and I'll show you the man.

They knew education / indoctrination in the early years was vital. Let state education reflect the diversity of our state. Keep religion for wherever you worship.

Plaza - I see you haven't addressed my suggested compromise. I will repeat it for you. How about people of faith are only allowed to use faith schools. And everyone else is allowed to apply to any school their conscience will allow.

Plaza - a good compromise would be to enforce fair admissions - anyone can apply to any school, with no selection by religion. Schools could still have more-or-less religious character, but could not use parent's church attendance to select pupils. That would fix the major problem that many oversubscribed religious schools can pick the kids with committed, organised parents (and hence get better results). If parents of one religion (or none) choose to send their kids to a school of a different religion (or none) for the great exam results, or great music or the right location or whatever, that would be fine. Everyone could chose the right school for their family and child, without being excluded from some schools for being the wrong religion.

Martorana, sorry I was waiting for tabbard to explain why I'm not engaging with other peoples views.

Yes personally I think that would be a good idea, that if you have a faith then you go to the faith school, if not then you don't... Obviously I can't speak for others.

Parietal - I think that would be a good idea. As long as parents where happy to have their children taught within in the faith of the chosen school I don't see why that couldn't be an option.

What about parents like me who aren't happy with that and who still don't have a choice? What exactly is the downside of getting rid of religion from schools? People who want to follow a faith will do so at home, people who don't won't have their children indoctrinated with something they don't believe? Problem solved.

So you would be happy for people of faith not to be allowed to use non faith schools?

Argue for faith based schools if you are happy to find yourself in an area where your local school is faith based and you dont share that faith.

IME the only people who argue for discrimination are the people hoping to benefit from it.

Funnily enough the people who are discriminated against arent so keen.

Martorana, Yes I guess if it was oversubscribed then it's only fair that parents who weren't religious and didn't want their children to attend a faith school should get the place. That said I think Pariteal's suggestion was the best.

I don't actually presume to have the answer to this btw, I just think there has to be some form of compromise as there are clearly lots of people who are unhappy with the current system. I don't think this means that faith schools need to be done away with though.

I'm only anti-denominational as I want as much choice over schools as those who have a faith. There are two local primary schools - one CoE; one non-denominational. As a result, our "choice" is reduced by 50% and if our DD doesn't get into the non-denominational school she will have to travel quite a distance. As an atheist, I'd be quite happy for my daughter to go to a CoE school. I share a lot of the Christian values, so I wouldn't have a problem with this. But the church school won't let my DD in. That's why I am anti-denominational.

I've not had any experience of schools not letting children in who aren't of that faith, apart from out local Catholic primary school.

I do know three families who aren't Catholic and managed to get their children in, then all ended up moving them as they weren't banking on the intensity of the religious teaching.

I've not had any experience of schools not letting children in who aren't of that faith

It depends where you live.

Many rural C of E schools are pretty indistinguishable from non-faith schools.

However, there are plenty of parts of London where lack of places and catchment divisions have meant that if you don't attend a particular church regularly your primary school child will not have school place and will have to wait till all the rest of the places in the borough have been allocated.

I can't understand why anybody would think that was anything other than completely barking.

I haven't RTFT yet, but notice OP hasn't linked to the (my) original thread that she references.

It is here