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Original poster

Does anyone else find the anti denominational school stance depressing?

240 replies

Plaza · 28/03/2014 18:28

I recently read a thread where the majority seemed to agree that state schools should be secular and denominational schools done away with altogether.

I found this pretty depressing, no least as it would have been my personal view about a year ago... I have since moved my DC to a COE school and cannot praise it or the Christian ethics enough.. What do you think?

OP posts:
siblingrevelry · 28/03/2014 18:34

As a product of catholic schooling and with two of three children just started at our local catholic school (baptised into the church at weeks old and school chosen for religion and results) I find it depressing too.

I remember before I had children I made the decision that I would like them to be educated against a background of religion (and that's just what it is, a background. It's an important ethos that runs through what they do, but it doesn't overtake the serious business of learning. I just find it makes for a very caring atmosphere. I never saw any bullying at either of my schools and it is very rare at my children's school too, which I believe has a lot to do with Christian attitudes towards one another)

Original poster
Plaza · 28/03/2014 18:37

I was raised in a strictly secular school & by strictly atheist parents.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

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Rumplestiltskinismyname · 28/03/2014 18:37

I would have no issues with denominational schools if they didn't exclude others on admissions. In an area that is so heavily over subscribed- I cannot understand how they get away with this, as in my mind this is discrimination. I know this isn't everyone's view, but it is mine. Personally, I think that education and religion should be separate.

Original poster
Plaza · 28/03/2014 18:39

I really disagree. Our faith is our life and I want our children raised in our faith & culture as much as possible.

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Original poster
Plaza · 28/03/2014 18:42

I suppose the issue is why don't non denominational schools do as well academically, to the point that parents of other or no faith would rather their children went to a faith school.

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TheWoollybacksWife · 28/03/2014 18:52

I have been a pupil at faith schools and my children have attended/are attending faith schools. It has been brilliant for them and they have thrived. I also really enjoyed my school days.

However - this was a choice I wanted and I was fortunate that there were schools that suited my choice and could take my children. For atheist parents that choice does not exist. Even so called non-denominational schools have to hold an act of worship.

I would support the call for the setting up of non-denominational schools provided that they existed alongside faith schools so that all parents had the same choice.

Parietal · 28/03/2014 19:00

I don't mind if there are faith schools as long as faith doesn't determine admissions. That creates barriers between communities and is not fair on kids of different faith to the best school in the area.

heronsfly · 28/03/2014 19:01

I am another like the poster above, a product of Catholic schooling myself, and my 6dcs have all been baptised at weeks old, recieved first Holy Communion and have been Confirmed.They have all been educated in Catholic schools, the two youngest dds are still attending a highly succesfull, oversubscribed Catholic Convent School.
But it is not all about education, we attempt to follow the Catholc ethos in every part of our lives,and parents are expected to take a huge interest in both Parish and School events.
I think its sad that so many people would like the denominational
Schools removed.

Original poster
Plaza · 28/03/2014 19:02

I've never known a non denominational school to hold an act of worship.

I would say it's a call for non denominational schools to pull their socks up in line with better achieving denominational schools so that parents didn't feel their children were being excluded from a good education.

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Gomez · 28/03/2014 19:06

I would like the choice of a secular education for my children.

The same as the posters above have the choice of a faith based education for their children.

Why is this depressing?

WhosLookingAfterCourtney · 28/03/2014 19:06

As has already been said, it's the admission discrimination that is the main problem - taxpayer funded schools that aren't open to all taxpayers. How can you defend that?

Also a problem is the worship in non-faith schools. Completely bonkers in this day and age.

Gomez · 28/03/2014 19:08

Harvest, Christmas and Easter Services all acts of worships. And I would bet undertaken by 95% of non-demonational schools across the UK.

Non-denominational schools are required by statute to undertake a minimum number of acts of worship each year.

Original poster
Plaza · 28/03/2014 19:09

Depressing that we shouldn't be allowed the choice, that all education should be secular

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Gomez · 28/03/2014 19:11

Are you currently depressed about the lack of choice for those who do want a secular education?

Original poster
Plaza · 28/03/2014 19:11

Do people really object that much to harvest, Easter and Christmas, and would the same parents then not celebrate these festivals at home? Surely they want their children to learn the original meaning of the festivals (in a educational sense), rather than just presents and chocolate?

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BackOnlyBriefly · 28/03/2014 19:12

As long as there's a school that supports my religion nearby for my children I don't give a damn about other people's children. If they don't get a choice it's just tough. They should have been Catholic/Jewish/Muslim like me.

Does that about cover it?

Original poster
Plaza · 28/03/2014 19:13

I am depressed that secular schools clearly aren't achieving as highly as denominational schools, I think that is the point in hand. I don't think doing away with denominational schools will suddenly make secular schools better.

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Rumplestiltskinismyname · 28/03/2014 19:15

I think that isn't the only issue in hand. A discriminatory admissions policy is a pretty huge one too... Don't you think?

Nocomet · 28/03/2014 19:15

The trouble is there are three separate worlds.

  1. real religious schools, Catholic, Muslim and Jewish that provide an education for those Faiths (to which I object as a feminist, but accept because I feel parents should be free to bring up their children their way)

  2. Rural CofE schools that aren't over subscribed and where the religious bit in the admissions code is ignored (except possibly for out of catchment DCs in a bumper baby year)

  3. Town/City schools where all sorts of pseudo religious claims are made by parents as they have somehow (possibly by being in older nicer areas) got the best reputation.

  4. are massively devise and need to go.

  5. are a complicated moral issue

  6. are a mostly harmless historical accident

heronsfly · 28/03/2014 19:15

The Catholic Diocese pays a huge amount of money towards the upkeep of our school buildings and also towards the support of the children, it is not all state funded.

pootlebug · 28/03/2014 19:16

I don't mind if religious schools exist, so long as they are not permitted to choose students on the basis of religion and/or church attendance.

Original poster
Plaza · 28/03/2014 19:17

But if there were two schools nearby, both were equally matched, and you were an atheist, why would you choose to send your children to the faith school?

I'm assuming that people choose faith schools as they are better achieving? I may be wrong on that so please enlighten me if so.

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NonnoMum · 28/03/2014 19:18

This comes up every so often on Mumsnet.

People don't realise that it is connected to our Head of State being Head of the Church too.

Church schools are intertwined with this.

I'm not saying whether or not this is right or not, I'm just mentioning this as a fact.

BackOnlyBriefly · 28/03/2014 19:18

Do people really object that much to harvest, Easter and Christmas,

Oh not that one again. The original meaning of Christmas was about an orgy of sex and food. And did you think the Easter egg was something started by Jesus? it's about fertility and sex.

If you look it up you will find most of your beloved Christian symbols are actually about other religions.

People are mostly happy with their kids learning about religion but object to their kids being told that your favourite religion is real. Lying to children is not a good start to their education.

zoemaguire · 28/03/2014 19:18

My catchment school - the ONLY catchment school - reserves a number of its places for church-goers. A church-going child living 6 miles away can get a place while my child gets sent to the other side of town because there are insufficient places for all catchment children. How can it be acceptable for a state-funded school to do this?! I have no issue with religious schools (well actually I do, but pretend I don't for a minute), but I have a very very big problem with my local school excluding local children on the grounds of their religious affiliation or lack of it.