Does anyone else find the anti denominational school stance depressing?

[Plaza]

I recently read a thread where the majority seemed to agree that state schools should be secular and denominational schools done away with altogether.

I found this pretty depressing, no least as it would have been my personal view about a year ago... I have since moved my DC to a COE school and cannot praise it or the Christian ethics enough.. What do you think?

If the parents are tax payers and their school meets with educational standards, I guess I would, is this a trick question?!

There are no secular schools in the UK.

Not state ones anyway. Probably some private ones.

it's depressing that religion has any part in education at all, we are all becoming more segregated in this world instead of integrated. why would anyone want that or see it as good for the future? you can be ethical without being religious

Plaza you are thinking only of the situation where you live.

In different areas things are very different.

You are saying "well this works for me" and applying it to everywhere.

If you were in a position where moving wasn't an option, and you had to catch a bus for 1 hour each way to get the kids to school as your local ones were predominantly religious and all were oversubscribed, would you feel the same way I wonder.

YY I flinched at the "ethics" thing.

Non christians can have ethics. Honest

Neither of the schools I attended nor the two my DC attended appeared to be affiliated with any religion

There are no secular state schools in the UK.

I think maybe you need to do some research? There are various laws around it all.

There are no secular schools.

Why did you need to start this thread about a thread instead of posting on the first one?

You say predominantly religious, does this mean that the non religious ones just aren't as good? I would say that is the issue.

I'm also a little confused as to why you really want a faith school. You attend services at the weekend I presume and have Sunday schools etc. So there is that religious teaching there. After children leave school they go onto non- secular universities, and workplaces. Why should schools be different? What specifically are they teaching them, or not, that you do not get from you church, synagogue etc. I genuinely (and perhaps a very atheist way of thinking) cannot see why schools should be any different. Yes, education levels should be raised across the board, this I agree with. But, I also agree that all children should be allowed to try and get into any school. Not be penalised for whatever religious leaning their parents do or do not have.

Plaza, we live in a small village, which has only one school. All the other schools around are also c of e. There isn't enough of a population to sustain another school (otherwise there'd be another school.) so what is the problem with making it secular, which doesn't exclude anyone? Our school doesn't admit on religious grounds, but has very many acts of worship as part of school life, plus indoctrination into a religion. I have no problem with children learning about various religions, i do have a problem with it being presented as unquestionable fact.

I have no problem with you paying for your child to be educated within any faith you chose to follow, I just don't want my taxes to go towards a system which perpetuates myths and intolerance.

The sooner the Govts of the respective parts of the UK abolish state funded faith schools, the better.

No, I said this:

"If you were in a position where moving wasn't an option, and you had to catch a bus for 1 hour each way to get the kids to school as your local ones were predominantly religious and all were oversubscribed, would you feel the same way I wonder."

The issue being that most schools have religious entry criteria, thus restricting your options if you are the "wrong" religion, and in addition all local schools are oversubscribed.

You need to read the posts more carefully.

Non-denominational schools tend to have more deprived children (generally measured by free school meals) and the nature of the hoop jumping required to gain admission excludes those with feckless parents. This social segregation can be damaging and is part of the reason that people fake religion to get their children in.

Because I have a different question about secular schools than the OP in the other thread. It seemed easier to start a new thread with a different question (my question) in a topic specifically to do with religion.

This really is a thread about a thread and your question isn't getting different responses at all.

So for eg. You are Hindu. Your local schools are all CofE and RC, except for one, with religious entry criteria. They are over-subscribed. If you were CofE or RC, you might get into one. But you are a Hindu, so you can't.

The one community school which is open to you is also oversubscribed.

So you end up with a school miles away. Because you are the "wrong" religion. Meanwhile people who are the "right" religion are coming in from further away.

So people aren't going to their local schools, the community is not mixing, there is an increase in traffic, and the whole thing is a total PITA for parents.

Lose lose, IMO.

Our community schools are good. The schools around here are generally pretty good. There just aren't enough of them, and far far too many admit on religious criteria.

There are no secular state schools in the UK, BTW OP.

Oh what was the original thread?

There's no such thing as a secular school, a daily act of worship is compulsory.

OP forgive me if I've interpreted you incorrectly but you appear to be implying that anyone who objects to religion in schools is jealous because the less religious schools are in your view usually the more crap schools.

(As an aside, the problem with state religion is how institutionalised it is across the board, and therefore more established and long-standing schools are more likely to be religious simply as an accident of history, and the powerbrokers who can influence school success are more likely to be religious or pretend to be so the deck is stacked unfairly in the favour of non-secular schools. This has nothing to do with "Christian ethics")...

Which means by implication you seem to think that non-religious parents are not allowed to have the simple motive of wanting the best school (that they are by the way paying for) to be available to their children.

That's quite offensive, as positions go.

a daily act of worship is compulsory

Not true in all parts of the UK.

I just wish there were secular schools in the uk, so that I didn't have to explain to my children that dead people can't come back to life.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2036107-To-think-it-is-time-to-secularise-all-state-funded-education?