Cosmic Ordering - let's try again?

[SylviasSlippers]

Logically I know it "should" be a load of crap but every time I've tried it, I've received what I asked for. Way back as an 8 year old we were moving house and I so desperately wanted a garden with steps on the path (no idea why). I visualised it and "prayed" for it and the house we ended up with had two steps on the path which was very rare in that area.

More recently I stumbled across the concept of cosmic ordering and decided to "order" a money find. A few nights later we were walking through a graveyard and there on the ground wet through and covered in muck was a £10 note staring up at me. I put it down to co-incidence.

A couple of years later I met a guy, fell in love with him and looking back it was obvious that I liked him more than he liked me ... So out of desperation I "cosmically ordered" for him to tell me he loved me on one specific night. So there we are, camping in a field, messing around and I do something daft and he laughs and says "oh god, I love you!" - he was not being serious, he was being sarcy but he still said it.

So a few months later I placed a cosmic order for him to say he loved me and meant it. So there we are, great night out, we're back in the hotel, he'd not said it. I tried to prompt it by asking how he thought the relationship was going and he said "great, but let's take it slow eh? I mean, I don't want to say I love you ... We've not been together long ... But I do, I do love you ..." Wtf? Cosmic order granted but not quite in the way I'd hoped.

A year later, we're still together. I place a cosmic order for him to ask me to marry him on this specific night. So we're sat in a restraunt and I do not prompt the conversation at all. All of a sudden he laughs and says "let's run off and get married in Vegas?". I didn't know how to take it so didn't say anything .. He then added - "I'm joking ..."

A few days ago I "ordered" an iphone 5c in green for less than £300 - that same night dp told me he'd won me that same phone on ebay for £260 (almost impossible to get one so cheap in "like new" condition.

It just seems that I get everything I ask for when I try it but never in a way I expect it. Does anyone else have any stories about cosmic ordering?
If you're not into it, don't take the piss please :-)

Today, I'm going to try it again. I'm going to start small and order the sighting of a red balloon by the end of the day. I'll update tonight whether or not it appeared.

Indigo - Energy gifts? FFS. Do you even know what energy is and how it works? Of course not. How ridiculous.

If you expect to be taken seriously, start providing some evidence for this bunk.

Energy gifts

Colin - I meant that if you advertised yourself as a counsellor that would at least be honest.

Do you tell your clients about the many, many trials and tests that have shown that aromatherapy doesn't work? Compared to precisely zero that it does?

Massage, of course, is good. So market yourself as a massage therapist. You surely must know that aromatherapy makes very specific claims about what oils and compounds can cure what ailment. None of it is true.

There is value in talking, listening, massage even mediation - but NONE in the curative claims of aromatherapy.

Sorry, am knackered. I'll respond in the morning if you reply.

Hang on - I mistook Mantorana saying aromatherapy thinking it was you saying that.

Sorry.

Bet it's healing crystals.

You don't have to say but you can sit there and claim all you like that people find your treatments useful, but if we don't know what they are, it's hard to judge, huh?

Oh and alternative and complementary therapies are identical. The only difference is the way that they are used.....alongside or instead of real medicine.

Still all bollocks though.

Hettie. Thanks for giving me a laugh tonight.

Scientifically derived actions therefore work sometimes, when the pattern is small enough to predict.

Just wanted to mention this even though it was a fair way back. If I've understood the post correctly it's an argument that a number of people have used recently. Sometimes they quote Hume who apparently showed that just because attaching a bulb to a battery causes it to light up the first 5 million times doesn't mean that it always will or that there's really a cause and effect there. (I doubt Hume used that example and may not have really meant that anyway),

Even though I think that's a silly argument it has occurred to me that it serves to demolish faith too. Since it says that just because CO or Prayer has appeared to work so far doesn't mean there's any connection between the CO/prayer and the result.

Hettie -I can't advertise myself as a counsellor as I am not a counsellor. I would need atleast a foundation degree in it to be registered.

I am well aware of the claims of SOME aromatherapists. There is however a body of evidence for aromatherapy particularly around anxiety, mood and sleep. There is more on Aromatherapy than many other comp therapies.
So I am afraid I would strongly disagree that there is zero evidence on that. At the very least certain fragrances can relax you just by the smell. I don't get any clients coming to me because they think aromatherapy can solve or cure anything they mainly come because they want a relaxing massage and may have back ache or shoulder tension etc or maybe feel down.

One of my other therapies gets much better results though and all of my clients have expressed that they have benefited by either sleeping better, moods evening out or that they have more energy - but no I am not divulging anymore about myself so I am not saying what the therapy is but it is a mainstream and very popular one!

Did you realise out of interest that many hospices use aromatherapy oils in aromasticks for their patients to smell? The smell of certain ones do most certainly ease anxiety. Things like Lavendar are known for this. Lavendar has certain chemicals in it that are sedatives. As I said though I am well aware that some makes claims that oils can be absorbed by the skin when some have molecules that are too big.
There are different routes of entry though like the olfactory system plus the limbic system is important in this as well. This is one reason why we find certain smells give us a nostalgic feeling and some we associate with unpleasant things.
I know many therapists that work in palliative care and dying people often find that they receive much comfort from the therapies. I also know that a fair amount of people with parkinson's find that aromatherapy massage gives them some relief - again I know people employed by the NHS for this specific purpose.

Hettie would you deny them this change to relieve some of their symptoms in their last days on earth?

Do you think that dying people would be better off without oils that can helo with their nausea and help them to feel more comforted and relaxed. Who are we to say that it can't help them when the proof is in the pudding? Hospices are paying for therapists because they can see the difference it is making. Some big hospitals are employing them too - clinical audits have been completed to show that it does help many patients.

So I can look at it that there are some aromatherapists making false claims but I don't and am very clear to my clients about it's limitations. Surely if the industry gets more well qualified practitioners that are ethical then that is good as it cleans up the industry? Would you rather it was full of dodgy under qualified therapists who make false claims? Or would it be better to try and fill it with well qualfied and ethical therapists.

I don't make any false claims at al and unlike some therapists I stick totally to the ASA guidelines where we have a limited range of things we can claim.

Anyway, I am exhausted as well - I feel like I have been in an emotional boxing ring all evening and I am not up for another round of this tomorrow. I am passionate about my work and it does help people. That is all I need to know and I am not going to defend myself or my work any more. However Hettie and others - I know I won't have changed your mind but I do hope you will have gained some insight into the fact that some of us are ethical and do help our clients however our therapies work.

Hettie - I have put up there one of the things I do. No I don't practise crystal healing - you seem very intent on attacking me like you would actually like me to offer crystals just so you can pull me apart!
Are you not a very happy person Hettie? As happy people don't normally feel the need to belittle people and try and make them feel small.

I don't hurt anyone - wouldn't hurt a fly - so I can't work out why you are so against what I do. I HELP people not hurt them.

Just as well I am not interested in pulling apart your job or your beliefs or attitudes but I don't profess to know you from this forum so I won't judge you like you have me.

Alternative and complementary therapies ARE different. Some therapies do claim to be able to cure and diagnose like certain ones that claim they can cure cancer and actively advise their users to avoid traditional cancer care. I think this is highly irresponsible. I never claim to diagnose or cure. Plus I advertise my work clearly as being alongside allopathic medicine.

Right that is it now for me - I have opened myself up in a way that has made posters feel they can judge me without knowing me and given away alot more about myself then many posters on this thread.

Back that would be a valid point if Faith involved pattern matching and predictions based on it. Faith recognises the complexity of patterns and human inability to reliably predict patterns in an absolute sense. This is because Faith concerns believing in that which has not been seen.

^Faith requires no evidence, that something works, or will work, by definition.

col I like lavender oil and I enjoy a nice warm bath with delicious scents. I have been known to enjoy a nice massage too. And peppermint oil has made me feel a bit less sick sometimes.

If I was ill I would definitely enjoy and get pleasure from a massage with nice oils. That might very well make me better, at least as well as a mild antidepressant. I do think it is much more evidence based and honest than say crystal healing or distance healing or homeopathy. So that part of what you do, I would be happy to use myself for relaxation. I don't know what broader claims are made for aromatherapy so we needn't go there - relaxation and stress relief and mild loan relief I absolutely buy, from massage with lavender or similar oils.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that lavender has some real effect, but I just looked up some research which tells me it is inconclusive.

But of course some pleasing smells are err pleasing. Also getting a massage is nice and makes you feel pampered. The sight of flowers instead of a bare hospital room makes you feel better. When I was small a teddy bear helped too.

But if you make one claim about it having a real measurable effect without evidence then that is at least unethical. If you tell clients that it's affecting their limbic system so it sounds 'scientific' that is not good either.

would you deny them this change to relieve some of their symptoms in their last days on earth

That argument gets used on here regularly. "oh you are so mean to put science before poor suffering people", but we are used to that one so it won't impress anybody.

My assertion that prayer has worked for me is anecdotal. I believe it to be true and do not require proof. I am thankful for it and it enriches my life. I know others who feel the same.

I know I am talking about Faith and belief here though. Sometimes my language omits these words because it gets tedious to prefix every sentence with these words.

But I struggle to believe any person can have absolute knowledge purely through human endeavours. They have beliefs but not absolute knowledge, because human kind is fallible and unreliable.

Colin,'I'm wondering if the popular, mainstream therapy you refer to is hypnotherapy. But I know you don't want to say, which is fair enough.

I have had hypnotherapy and it didn't help with my particular problem, but as far as I know, there is some reasonably robust scientific evidence for hypnotherapy. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :)

capsium the thing about claiming that we know nothing for certain and it could all be illusion is that so could faith.

You can say 'oh but that's different' but it's quite unconvincing. How do you even know you have faith? You might be imagining that you do and imagining that you had faith yesterday.

capsium don't let me convince you otherwise if it makes you happy.

Back Faith is just a consistent unwavering belief in something which cannot be seen or proven. I know what I believe, they are my thoughts. I can acknowledge consistency retrospectively. I can decide what to put my Faith in.

BeastofBurden - much of the research you will not find on google scholar etc as lot of it you can only be accessed from university's that have paid for access to certain peer reviewed journals. Unless you work in the health department of a university I doubt you have paid the huge amount of money it costs to access these databases and journals. It is not just Lavendar anyway, there are other oils that have been proven to help with anxiety, sleep and mood. Which mainly what my clients come to me with.

As for your last sentence -for goodness sake I am not trying to impress anyone!
I don't feel the need to impress the posters on this thread as my self esteem is already rubust enough already without having to impress a bunch of strangers.

However I meant what I said - aromatherapy does help people in palliative care and many consultants, nurses and Doctors in this field of work see this regularly. So what I said has nothing to do with putting "poor people before science" but more to do with the fact that I was asking Hettie if she would prefer this to be taken away even though it does provide them with some help. That is a fair question I feel baring in mind she appears to think that my industry shouldn't exist.

Of course prayer works. Lavender oil, all other types of oils, creams, massage, facials, any and all other rituals whereby you pay attention to yourself and make yourself feel better work.

Back I doubt you would convince me. As I said I can choose what to put my Faith in, it does not happen passively, although it can if you are unaware you have a choice. The passive kind of faith I would call subconscious bias.

Back - I also don't mention the limbic system to my clients - I said I don't make claims or attempt to explain the mechanism by which it may or may not work. I was replying to a poster.

Please don't assume you know what I say to my clients or put words into my mouth.

col you are muddling up my post with backs. I didn't talk about impressing people or putting people before science. I said that I valued massage with nice PIL as a means of relaxation and stress relief and even mild pain relief.

But I could probably get hold of those journals if you were to point me towards them.

You mentioned me having the courage of my convictions re giving my body to organ donation and science. I don't feel it is courage, exactly, more that it does seem an awful waste to burn it, or let it rot down, when it could be helpful to so many deserving people.

Cote for me prayer is not merely a ritual though. It is as ritualistic as a conversation, thought or relationship, which are dynamic.

Back - sorry posted too soon. I don't say anything to my clients to make it sound more scientific. I am not unethical and don['t make any claims to them that can't be proven by evidence. So sorry you can't get me on that one.

In addition I mentioned the limbic system because I know how it works in relation to smell. That has been proven and Ido know my anatomy and physiology of this area rather well.
Not sure why you seem to be trying to catch me out Back - does it make you feel better? Would you like it if I picked apart your job and implied that your work was unethcial when I don't know you? I have opened up and you know more about me than I do about you.I don't need to justify my work to you Back or anyone else.

So so sorry Beast yes I did mean Back - and I was saying it in my head but obviously my hands typed something different. I am sorry I am rather tired and certainly tired of defending myself and my profession.

Beast - It was I think Capsium talking about donating bodies to science.
It is interesting as I have started to think of this myself recently. I certainly want to donate my organs if I can.

Well this has certainly moved on from CO!