Christian Bible Study

[HoneyandRum]

Welcome everyone to Christian Bible Study week 1. For convenience we are using the Lectionary Gospel reading for each Sunday. Our reading this week is Luke 2:22-40. For anyone without a bible here is the reading, (quite long):

"And when the day came for them to be purified in keeping with the Law of Moses, they took him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord - observing what is written in the Law of the Lord: Every first-born male must be consecrated to the Lord - and also to offer in sacrifice, in accordance with what is prescribed in the Law of the Lord, a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons. Now in Jerusalem there was a man named Simeon. He was an upright and devout man; he looked forward to the restoration of Israel and the Holy Spirit rested on him. It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death until he had set eyes on the Christ of the Lord. Prompted by the Spirit he came to the Temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the Law required, he took him into his arms and blessed God; and he said:

Now, Master, you are letting your servant go in peace as you promised;
for my eyes have seen the salvation
which you have made ready in the sight of the nations;
a light of revelation for the gentiles and glory for your people Israel.

As the child's father and mother were wondering at the things that were being said about him, Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, 'Look, he is destined to be a sign that is opposed - and a sword will pierce your soul too - so that the secret thoughts of many may be laid bare.'

There was a prophetess, too, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was well on in years. Her days of girlhood over, she had been married for seven years before becoming a widow. She was now eighty-four years old and never left the Temple, serving God night and day with fasting and prayer. She came up just at that moment and began to praise God; and she spoke of the child to all who looked forward to the deliverance of Jerusalem.

When they had done everything the Law of the Lord required, they went back to Gaililee, to their own town of Nazareth. And as the child grew to maturity, he was filled with wisdom; and God's favour was with him."

(This quote is from The New Jerusalem Bible, a Catholic translation widely used in English speaking countries. If you have a different translation you would like to post please do, with details of the translation you are using.)

To fellow Christians: This is a place of fellowship, encouragement, gentleness and understanding as sisters and brothers in Christ. To help each other grow in faith, understanding of the scriptures and of each other's faith traditions in a respectful and loving manner.

Please share your reflections, inspirations, thoughts, questions, musings and findings from study here.

Shout out to those who dropped by showing interest in a Bible Study:
niminypiminy, wolfiefan, Dogonabeanbag, StressedHEmum, minniemagoo, lostblonde86, thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts, madhairday, thanksamillion, Loobingler, Tuo, Gingerdodger, ZingSweetApple, Cloutiedumpling, Gingercurl and AMumInScotland !

Hear hear Ginger.. Nothing to add to that. Loving everyone's take on this passage.

In all my years on Mn i have never joined a discussion in any thread that talks about " do you believe in God" or the sister thread discussing religion, apart from actual christian threads. Well i did tonight and am regretting it already simply because it is not worth it. English not being my mother tongue doesn't help either so sometimes it is hard for me to say exactly what i want to say, because it sounds wrong or not even close to what i would have said in my mother tongue.gggrrrrr. Never again. I will hide here in the comfort of home

I have to preach on this passage on Sunday and I'm hoping inspiration will strike some time soon. There is great depth to this week's readings and finding a way in is hard.

I'm really enjoying everyone's input.

Don't worry English is my mother tongue and I feel like that too sometimes. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking a completely different language to some posters. We have even ended up posting dictionary definitions!

Pedantic me? No....

^ x post. Last post in reply to Blessed.

I was thinking today how when Jesus says we do "not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the word if God" what a hopeful message this is. How in times of lack, God's word can sustain us, keep us going.

What a great post Ginger.

Fabulous post Ginger

Don't worry BLessed - it is harsh out there sometimes.

Loving everyone's thoughts on this passage.

Ginger - one of the things that struck me was what you also pointed out about how the temptations in this passage are real - that is, that we can't just say 'Oh well, he's bound to be OK... after all, he's God' because he's also a human being just like us.

I was also thinking about the significance of reading this passage now, at the beginning of Lent. Clearly there are echoes of the 40-day period of abstinence and penitence, but I was wondering if these temptations also prefigure in a series of ways the Easter story at the culmination of Lent: the real hunger and thirst and heat and discomfort prefiguring Christ's real death on the Cross, the stones which he declines to turn into bread prefiguring the stone that is rolled away from the tomb (symbolising the way in which physical deprivations - even deprivation of life itself - can't hold him), the temptation to throw himself down from the top of the temple prefiguring the mockery of Christ on the Cross ('He saved others; let him save himself'); and of course the offering of the kingdoms of the world prefiguring 'My kingdom is not of this world'). So reading this passage at the beginning of Lent we're reminded that this is a period of hardship, but also of what will happen at the end of this story...

I loved niminy's thoughts about the desert, and was thinking about the Desert Fathers and how they also saw the value of taking themselves into this inhospitable but incredibly beautiful place as a way of somehow taking themselves closer to God.

Tuo Re. the prefiguring, never thought about it like that before and it makes a lot of sense.

I love the final image of angels coming to help Jesus the second the devil has gone. Were they too scared to confront his evil directly (like me, on occasion), Jesus' reward for resisting temptation, or sent by God to comfort his son after his ordeal?

I don't have anything very insightful to say about this passage. There are just so many lessons to learn.

There are a couple of ways that I like to think about it, though. The first is that temptation, or testing, is all around us, in every part of our lives, both physical and spiritual. We can only get through that testing by relying on God and His Word. "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God." God's Word is as vital to our living as bread, it's what guides us, sustains us and helps us live the way that we should. In answer to each temptation, Jesus replied with "It is Written that....". God's word can be our guide in any challenge that we face and His strength will help us deal with testing, if we can only bring ourselves to rely on Him and not ourselves.

The other way I think of this is as a kind of guide for how to live. The temptations are very real, just like the ones that we face. Jesus is asked to feed himself, to put his life in danger and to seek power by abandoning God.

If the Devil is the enemy of God or a representation of "the world" it seems to me to be a lesson in not seeking material wealth of public importance and acknowledgement. My brain isn't really switched on yet, so this is bound not to make any sense. But, if we seek material stuff, fame and fancy living then we are turning out backs on God and following the way of the "World." I'm always reminded of 1st Timothy 6:8, when I read this passage. We should be content with adequate food and shelter, anything else diverts us from the life that God wants us to lead. A lesson that I think is much needed in this time of reality telly and celebrity seeking.

This passage is also the reason that I would never go bungy jumping or sky diving or any other extreme, thrill seeking sport (it's definitely not that I'm a big chicken!) I think that there is a warning here about taking undue risks with the life that God has given you.

This week's reading:

John 3. 1-17

Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus by night and said to him, ‘Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do apart from the presence of God.’ Jesus answered him, ‘Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.’ Nicodemus said to him, ‘How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?’ Jesus answered, ‘Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be astonished that I said to you, “You must be born from above.” The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.’ Nicodemus said to him, ‘How can these things be?’ Jesus answered him, ‘Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things?

‘Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen; yet you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

‘For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.

‘Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

I think this is a very important passage. It highlights the absolute transformation of a person when they decide to believe on Christ.

I think the stuff about the wind shows how it is more than being able to work things out intellectually and how important belief and Faith is.

It also highlights God's love for us.

Commenting on the passages posted on this Bible Study thread, I've noticed something that hasn't struck me before: throughout the New Testament, there are people who make banal or ignorant comments and Jesus patiently answers by correcting them in order to teach them. It shows us that it's ok to not understand, be ignorant of the meaning or true importance of what's going on. There's no shame in it. By asking questions, such as Nicodemus' "Can one enter a second time into the mother's womb and be born?", we learn. No one is considered too stupid.

On the other hand, the Scribes, Pharisees and Saducees, whom Jesus knew should know better, received sharp responses from him to their questions, which were intended to trip him up, that showed up their hypocrisy.

I agree cheapskatermum I think a lot of the time it can be people's own pride that can actively hinder any Faith.

If you just lack knowledge but accept this, you know you just have to seek more knowledge. However pride can prevent a person from acknowledging they even need to seek further knowledge of God, IYSWIM. Which in turn affects what they can believe in Faith.

Definitely, capsium. I'm reading Screwtape Letters at the moment though and he does make a good point about the vicious circle you can get in if you get too proud of how humble you're being!

You are right cheapskate. Remember Nathaniel asking" can anything good come out of Nazareth"? I always at that every time i read that sentence.

Great example, Blessed. I love this thread!

Nicodemus is a really interesting character. He's a leading figure in the Pharisees, the group who so often come across as the bad guys in the Gospels. The Pharisees were Jewish renewal movement, emphasising holiness by keeping the law (especially those bits of it relating to purity) very strictly. The Pharisees are fascinated by Jesus -- there are so many encounters between them where the Pharisees are trying to challenge Jesus and catch him out with hard questions.

But here Nicodemus comes to Jesus alone (mostly the Pharisees are seen in groups), and by night. He really wants to know; he's not debating and point-scoring. And Jesus doesn't only answer his questions. He tells Nicodemus who he is and what he has come for. He reproaches Nicodemus, 'we speak of what we know, and testify to what we have seen; but you do not receive our testimony' -- it seems that Jesus's words fall on deaf ears.

Or do they? Nicodemus makes two further appearances in John. On Jesus's second visit to Jerusalem in chapter 7, when he is teaching in the temple (interestingly he compares himself to Moses in both these passages) and the people start to say he is the Messiah, the Pharisees send the temple police to arrest Jesus. But Nicodemus sticks up for him, and reminds the crowd baying for Jesus's arrest that under the law anyone who is accused must be given a fair trial: God is a god of justice.

Then Nicodemus appears for the last time in chapter 19, when he brings a hundred pounds of myrrh and aloes to prepare Jesus's body for burial. In the aftermath of Jesus's terrible death, he finally declares himself to be a follower of Jesus -- in a situation of great fear and danger, he gives Jesus the most generous gift he can give.

So maybe what we see in this passage is the beginning of Nicodemus's conversion. He comes secretly, by night, and seems to ask stupid questions. But what Jesus says to him stays with him, and he gradually becomes a follower of Jesus. We don't hear him make a profession of faith, but when it comes to it his actions show how he lives it out -- imperfectly, maybe, but so do we.

Nicodemus has been an important figure for me in my faith journey I am someone who came to Jesus by night, secretly, and became his follower without telling anyone about it. But he gets braver, and I have tried to too to follow Jesus by day, to stand up for him in the secular world I live and work in, and to try to declare my faith in him by my actions as well as my words.

Thanks for sharing that niminy it was really helpful.

It's Tuesday again! This week's passage:

John 4.5-42

So he came to a Samaritan city called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired out by his journey, was sitting by the well. It was about noon.

A Samaritan woman came to draw water, and Jesus said to her, ‘Give me a drink’. (His disciples had gone to the city to buy food.) The Samaritan woman said to him, ‘How is it that you, a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria?’ (Jews do not share things in common with Samaritans.) Jesus answered her, ‘If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, “Give me a drink”, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.’ The woman said to him, ‘Sir, you have no bucket, and the well is deep. Where do you get that living water? Are you greater than our ancestor Jacob, who gave us the well, and with his sons and his flocks drank from it?’ Jesus said to her, ‘Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, but those who drink of the water that I will give them will never be thirsty. The water that I will give will become in them a spring of water gushing up to eternal life.’ The woman said to him, ‘Sir, give me this water, so that I may never be thirsty or have to keep coming here to draw water.’

Jesus said to her, ‘Go, call your husband, and come back.’ The woman answered him, ‘I have no husband.’ Jesus said to her, ‘You are right in saying, “I have no husband”; for you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true!’ The woman said to him, ‘Sir, I see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshipped on this mountain, but you say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem.’ Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.’ The woman said to him, ‘I know that Messiah is coming’ (who is called Christ). ‘When he comes, he will proclaim all things to us.’ Jesus said to her, ‘I am he, the one who is speaking to you.’

Just then his disciples came. They were astonished that he was speaking with a woman, but no one said, ‘What do you want?’ or, ‘Why are you speaking with her?’ Then the woman left her water-jar and went back to the city. She said to the people, ‘Come and see a man who told me everything I have ever done! He cannot be the Messiah, can he?’ They left the city and were on their way to him.

Meanwhile the disciples were urging him, ‘Rabbi, eat something.’ But he said to them, ‘I have food to eat that you do not know about.’ So the disciples said to one another, ‘Surely no one has brought him something to eat?’ Jesus said to them, ‘My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to complete his work. Do you not say, “Four months more, then comes the harvest”? But I tell you, look around you, and see how the fields are ripe for harvesting. The reaper is already receiving wages and is gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. For here the saying holds true, “One sows and another reaps.” I sent you to reap that for which you did not labour. Others have laboured, and you have entered into their labour.’

Many Samaritans from that city believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, ‘He told me everything I have ever done.’ So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them; and he stayed there for two days. And many more believed because of his word. They said to the woman, ‘It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is truly the Saviour of the world.’

There is so much in that, I don't know where to start....I will try when I have some energy, but meanwhile looking forward to reading posts. Thanks niminy

Gosh, i don't know where to start as well MHD. I need some sleep and to clear my mind . There is so much here. One thing that stands out to me is the eagerness of the woman to believe that Jesus is who He claims to be, then right away begins her ministry of evangelising and bringing others to Christ. She is so ripe for salvation..