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Original poster

Is the Christian God's love unconditional?

902 replies

Woolmark · 20/11/2013 19:57

Ok, some questions which have been playing on my mind, I am genuinely interested.

Surely his love is on the condition that you are a) a Christian and b) follow his rules?

Also, if God loves everyone as much as he does, why can't he save everyone by simply appearing to them? If I could save my children by doing this then I would in an instant, rather than turning up at the end and destroying the ones who weren't Christian.

OP posts:

headinhands · 24/11/2013 15:56

And a pretty water tight one too. You're honest saying that people should believe fantastic claims without any proof at all. You'd only be happy to say that about what you happen to believe.

Why aren't you a Muslim?

DioneTheDiabolist · 24/11/2013 15:57

Head that is your understanding of faith. For other people it's different.

capsium · 24/11/2013 16:04

head because I like being a Christian.

headinhands · 24/11/2013 16:08

Well that's great that you like being a Christian. But that says nothing for the veracity of its claims does it. Same as the Johnny Depp scenario. I would like to think he wants to marry me and burns for me with a love that he can barely contain, but it wouldn't mean it was true.

capsium · 24/11/2013 16:17

head you do know you can't possibly get evidence for all your beliefs.

God is God, that is a superior being. It does not surprise me that as humans we are unable to appreciate fully everything about Him in our own understanding.

There is no such thing as evidence, only data, which is interpreted by us to form beliefs. If everything you believe is a result of interpreting this data, it can be superseded at anytime, thus there is never any knowledge.

Golddigger · 24/11/2013 16:23

capsium. Evidence doesnt matter to head.

I would like to know what would make the difference. I am fresh out of ideas.

Golddigger · 24/11/2013 16:26

I think it may be love. I dont think it is ever going to be merely words.

Something happens in head's life and someone shows Christian love. .

capsium · 24/11/2013 16:31

Your right Golddigger people need love.

BackOnlyBriefly · 24/11/2013 16:31

'Christian love' what a wonderful phrase. Is that unique or identical to the other kind?

headinhands · 24/11/2013 16:51

So data then, I have no data to suggest the Christian god is real. Is that better?

Call it what you will, it sounds like you're saying I should just pick god even though I have no data? So I go away and come back saying I've become a Muslim, there, I've taken your advice and chosen a god without the need for any reason. In reality there is just as much reason to choose Allah, (obviously, not to offend any of the Muslims here).

You'd say 'great' would you? Or would you think 'nooo! You chose the wrong god!' How do you know I've chosen the wrong god?

headinhands · 24/11/2013 16:56

Gold, sure, I've had some bad stuff happen like all of us, probably no worse than most of us, and no more since, during or before I was a Christian so I personally don't think 'bad stuff happening' was the cause for me to lose my faith. It was a thinking journey if you like, that really got going when I started stargazing with dh a few summers ago.

I know it's tempting to think an atheist rejects the idea of god because of personal suffering and so on, I used to do it myself!

capsium · 24/11/2013 17:05

head if I thought you'd made a wrong decision i'd just keep talking to you, helping you if you needed me to and sharing what I thought. I wouldn't march in saying 'You're wrong!' I tend to be more tentative than that. I can also pray that I say the right thing.

headinhands · 24/11/2013 17:07

I love love :). I've got loads of love in my life.

thehorridestmumintheworld · 24/11/2013 17:08

I don't want to see people insulting each other over this. I'm a christian but that doesnt mean I haven't asked myself these same questions. But i find something i like in christianity despite all those questions, others do not. In fact that is why I so like Rob Bell because he has helped me see a way of answering some of those big questions that were making me feel unhappy with my faith. Like the one mentioned above, how can a loving God send unbelievers to Hell? There are so many questions and we can't know we are right so we certainly can't blame others who asked those same questions but came up with the answer there is no God. My answer is that we do not truly understand God but I can't prove I'm right. It all comes down to if you want to believe and if that gives you something now that is meaningful to you. For me it gives me a sense of connection to everything and the feeling that i can reach out in that connection and it can reach back to me in a positive way.

capsium · 24/11/2013 17:09

Well that's one thing we agree on head. I love love too.

rabbitlady · 24/11/2013 17:14

i had a near-death experience. i was content to be near heaven, not in it, not expecting to see anyone or be acknowledged in any way, just curled up alone, safe outside the 'walls'. then, i was taken in. i was overwhelmed just to be on the inside... no need for anything more... then my name was called and i ran, ran, towards the light. the light was gold/white and hot without burning. the light was bliss and absolute acceptance. there was no need to ask forgiveness because everything was known and accepted. i was welcome. the love was beyond anything imaginable.
that love is unconditional. it isn't just Christian, it is for everyone, and it is from the one God. God is. hear o Israel...allahu akbar...in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit... all that and more...

headinhands · 24/11/2013 17:28

I'm not saying you would say that but you'd have no reason to logically think I had made the wrong decision, seeing as I'd made it the same way you'd made yours, by going on what I felt rather than any data/logic/evidence etc

capsium · 24/11/2013 17:45

Very interesting rabbit. I can see how thinking about it how Jesus' message could transcend language, religion, everything really. However this is something that I really do not fully understand, yet, just get glimpses of.

capsium · 24/11/2013 17:47

head your right, in terms of data, logic etc. That is why I would still aim to do my best to be friendly and respectful.

lifecolour · 24/11/2013 18:22

There's so much to be learned from other faiths. I love some things I have learned about the Muslim faith some of it on MN! Buddhism has so much to be admired, these are the ones I know most about. Also I learned something about some of the Native American beliefs which are very interesting. I do think we can find God in all these faiths because if God is in everything he must be within these faiths. Rob Bell said when you find something that is truth then that actually is God because one aspect of God is that he is truth. I really like that but I am still looking for a way to understand more about all this.

Italiangreyhound · 24/11/2013 18:51

BackOnlyBriefly there have been masses of posts since I asked my question to you and you replyied, so ti may be a bit irrelevent but to me (IMHO) if I believe something and someone else believes something totally different then of course I think I am right and they are wrong. I don't think it is arrogant. I am not trying to be horrible to them and of course they have the freedom to believe what they like. You just seem to find it hard to believe that this is possible yet you say it is in your example. I think the element of 'difficulty' is that neither point is probable. Yet just because something is not 'provable' it is still something people can believe in passionately. If this is in no way answering your original question then sorry! .

Italiangreyhound · 24/11/2013 19:07

Back I wonder why you would feel as a Christian I would automatically assume that everyone elses different beliefs were as storngly held as mine or that that would necessarily make them 'real' if thta would chalenge my belief and make mine not real? The answer with faith is always that we cannot prove it. So we must live our lives in the knowledge of what 'we' 'know'/have expereienced/belive and that should make us loving to others and not horrible.I do not go around challening other people's beliefs or calling them wrong or anything of that sort. But by the same token I do not assume because they are different to mine they nullfy my beliefs.

Does that make sense?

BackOnlyBriefly · 24/11/2013 19:45

Italiangreyhound I think you may have misunderstood my question. It's not about people insulting people as such.

I could put in again, but I'd only be cutting and pasting and if you want you can go back and see it in context. It began when someone said their church believed only 4000 go to heaven and someone referred to that as bollocks.

headinhands · 24/11/2013 19:50

As a Christian aren't you called to spread the gospel? And the problem with asserting that your beliefs are right because you 'feel it is' that that's just the same as people of other faiths too. I can't remember how I got that to sit right when I was a Christian. I don't think we spoke about it much. I'm not sure I really sat and thought about how come people could felt as intimately connected to what I felt was a 'false god'. I guess I just assumed they couldn't possibly be feel as passionate. I dunno.

capsium · 24/11/2013 19:57

head I think spreading the Gospel can be a process. You have to get to know people to know how to relate to them. Different things move different people. You don't have to shove your views in their face. Sometimes just being there for them means a lot. Reading about the apostle's work in the early church helps.

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