Islam - What do you think?

[ChaCha]

Hello everybody,

I've been posting on MN for years and have met some lovely people on here. I am a practising Muslim, have been for around 6 years and chose this way of life for myself after much soul searching.
I recently met up with some ladies from my PN group here and not an eyelid was batted about my headscarf or the obvious fact that I am a Muslim. We have been chatting online for a year and a half and it has never been an issue.
It shows me that we can live in a tolerant society and that our own beliefs do not need to be forced upon others. I have found the inner peace that I was looking for for so long and this has prompted meto ask the following:

1. What makes you happy/content in life? What/Who do you turn to when you've had a really bad day? Do you often think about death and how does it effect your day to day life?

2. What comes into mind when you see a woman wearing a headscarf and how do you view Islam?

My thoughts for the day. Thank you. Off to change nappy x

Wearing a headscarf isn't exclusive to Islamic women, FWIW.

I've seen many Jewish and Christian women in other parts of the world w/their heads covered.

Just today I saw about 10 Missionaries of Charity nuns walking down Leith Walk in sari and headscarves.

Funny that no one thinks its wrong for nuns to wear habits, or says much about churches where females are supposed to cover their heads.

I see it as a personal choice of that particular female and think no more or less of that person.

I'm uneasy about this in the same way as I'd be uneasy about someone wearing a balaclava. I like to see people's faces, especially as they are seeing mine. It's a gut feeling of discomfort if I feel someone doesn't want me or others to see them.

Scribble, I'm also a little uncomfortbale about nuns but at least I can see their faces.

Thats true there is something about hidden faces, its not something I see much here at all, plenty head scarves but not full hijabs.

I feel the same way as spidermama about that particular costume (not headscarves though). It's a gut reaction to seeing someone all in black with their facal features hidden and only their eyes visible. I wouldn't feel comfortable talking to someone if they had the advantage of seeing facial expression to accompany the voice, and I didn't. It feels a little sinister.

what makes me happy - my son, knowing that DH and I are happy together, a very fine cup of tea and an hours of uninterrupted reading

really interesting thread, thanks ChaCha (love your name too!). I'm moving to the Gulf soon and took my first visit out there recently. What I noticed was how respectful the Muslim culture is to women and also how practical it is. When temps hit 40+ you don't want to be exposed to the sun at all, pork and shellfish are inherently more likely to carry bacteria in a hot counrty so it makes sense to avoid them etc. I feel far more positive/open to Islam having seen it as the majority practice if you see what I mean. Interesting for me as I'm from a family of resolute aetheists so religion/faith doesn't usually cross my mind.

re the nuns - nuns have always bothered me since my dgf told me they can read your thoughts as they walk by. I mean I KNOW they can't but then again....

Spidermama I understand it is probably really difficult for you to comprehend, but osme women choose to havetheir faces completely veiled.

My youngest brother-in-laws wife is one of those people, to this day no male members of my inlaws have seen her face, my husbands sisters and mum, and a lot of the women in the family are really horrible about her because if it, although they knew from the start that she was very very strict and had told them she completely observes the veil, no male outside of those of her immediate family has seen her face to my knowledge.

There is nothing sinister about it, this is the extent to which she observes religious laws. But she has never condemned any of us. And wouldn't ever say anything to anyone. She is one of the sweetest women I have ever known.

Most women who I've seen wearing the complete veil in england tend to be elderly women, their beautiful daughters tend to walk beside them dressed to the nines. But as it's a pretty rare sight I can understand you'd feel uncomfortable about it but I feel it is a persons choice how they wish to dress.
Have there been many crimes commited by veiled Muslim women??

I am not religious but have no problem with headscarves or any other religious clothing or adornments. I thought france was so silly when they tried to ban headscarves, what a way to alienate people.

I agree adding some pretty shades of colour to the get up might go some ways to making it more pleasing to the eye...

bluejelly - France has banned all religious attire or symbols from it's schools. It is to wipe out any prejudice resuting from a pupil's religion because all state schools are totally non religious. It is their attempt to separate religion from education. Crucifixes are also banned.

I know this is controversial but I do see their point.

Message withdrawn

I agree it's their free choice fuzzywuzzy but we have to live as a community and be aware of the effect our free choices have on others so there's a balancing act.

I can see the logic Rhubarb but I think it backfired hugely. I think 'white' France has big problems coming to terms with its multi-culturalness and making people feel defensive about their cultural and religion was deeply unhelpful for societal cohesion.
Huge riots last summer can't have been conincidental...

Doesn't society always limit the free choice of the individual, to varying degrees? Isn't that what society is? We all agree boundaries of acceptable behaviour and then we all agree to try and adhere to them, even though it inevitably means sacrificing some of our personal preferences. The banning of religious attire in schools in France is a very interesting example, I think. I'm not sure where I stand on it.

Rhubarb does France then make orthodox Jewish men cut off their ringlets I'm curious about how they could enforce somethign like that tbh, my parents live in an orthodox Jewish area nad the Jewish men wear their hair in ringlets on their temples, they also have very specific dress too. Is this then not allowed in France and how on earth do they go about enforcing it???

1. I am an atheist, and find it very positive to be so. I have strong moral values, I think (but not always conventional) and feel a very strong sense of responsibility for the world and society around me. I look for (and find) kindness and humour and resolute endeavor in other human beings to give me hope, and I find peace and renewal in the great outdoors - sea, mountains etc. I do think about death, I am not at all frightened about it, and see it as part of the continuum of 'not being alive' - 'being alive' - 'not being alive'. I am a tiny tiny part of a huge universe in an infinite history and my life isn't very significant at all. But I protect my life in order to love and support my DS. My wish is to live long enough to give him the spirit and skills for survival and independence.
2. Members of my extended family are Muslim, as are colleagues. I have often been struck by the committment to community support, generosity, peacefulness of views etc, and have much admiration for many aspects of what i know of Islam...aversion to charging interest, committment to charity etc. But I also have questions - as I do of all the religions I know of. I do wonder about the creation of Shariah law, which was introduced 800 or so years after another prophet preached forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness. Other religions do not specify physical and deadly punishments. I do have questions about a religion which has a particularly polarised treatment of men and women - and allows one to judge the other. I also wonder why it is that attracts women who have not grown up in a family or cultural context of Islam to adopt a way of life which adopts constraint. I would ask the same q of someone becoming a nun, or joining one of those 'surrendered wife' programmes. I will be honest - it makes me angry when I see the 5 year-old in my DS's class wearing a tightly wrapped hijab - as angry as when her classmates wear mini-totty-tops. Both seem to project onto children an adult burden of sexuality. Grown women - it's up to them! I have had long conversations and friendships with women who have adopted hijab as a political identification with Islam, as a way of asserting their identity - it is a political act as much (more probably) than religious - and I do understand that, in the context of a noticeable anti-islam (with undeniable links in some cases to racism) atmosphere. I have been in some furious debates on MN about, for instance, a woman's right to wear hijab in various institutions, and i couldn't possibly reconcile democracy with banning adult thinking women from choosing to wear a bit of cloth on their heads! But that doesn't stop me feeling surprised that people adopt it 'from scratch', however often I have had it explained!

I am being as honest as i can, and trust that you will understand that whatever I think, i DO believe people can get along, because my view has no more or weight than yours, and that difference does not have to imply hostility.

My family and good health are very important to me. I believe in God but I am sceptical about organised religion, even though I do attend CofE church periodically. I don't think about death really so it does not affect how I live on a daily basis.

If a woman wants to wear a headscarf it is up to her. I will say this though. I grew up in area where I encountered a lot of Muslims and the women I knew were treated like 2nd class citizens by the males in their family.

My opinion of Islam is that it is a prescriptive, unyielding, intolerant religion that was started by a warmongering, mysognist con-man who laid to waste whole communities who did not fall in line with his beliefs, imo.

Fuzzywuzzy in response to your question about have there been many crimes committed by veiled women, you do not have to be seen in order to commit a crime. Also, if noone knows what a veiled woman looks like, what is to stop her sneaking out in disguise, ie fully unveiled?

I would like to add a woman wearing a veil does not elevate her to some special status which means we should view her as more pure and precious than the rest of us mere mortals.

Speedymama when did anyoen say anytihg about a veiled woman being more precious or elevated?? It's ones deeds that count, and who is anyone to say what status anyone holds???

Out of curiousity where did you get your information about the Prophet (Pbuh) to come to your conclusion???

lastly if any woman with no experince of the west were to stumble across MN they'd think western women are 'treated like 2nd class citizens by the males in their family. '
Personally I think far too many mother's treat their sons like they are precious beings, and then their poor wives are left having to either point out to them that they aren't or put up with it.

Sorry speedymama i totally disagree. I am not muslim but your comments are offensive.
What ever happened to live and let live?

And once a woman chooses to adopt the veil she won't be taking it off with such ease as you describe. I for one am convinced that if a woman in a veil committed a crime it would make headline news....

crikey speedy, don't mince your words!
Sorry, nothing useful to add here. Am an atheist through and through and don't really 'get' religion.

What makes me happy are my family... and I must say beatuiful scenery - I always feel happy looking out of our window at a river full of wildlife.

I don't worry about death but the effect it has on other people.

And when I see a woman with a headscarf I do wonder whether she's being oppressed. When I see little girls with headscarves I feel angry and sad for them (but then I also feel angry and sad for little girls wearig suggestive clothing - judgmental, moi?!).

as a biological aside, the incidence of hejab, along side poor nutrition is leading to the re-emergance of rickets in some communities in Bedford (and don't lambast me, this is biology and not BNP bollocks)

We have less sunlight here than in the middle east, darker skins cannot absorb enough ligt to manufacture Vitamin D and if people can't afford a good diet, then they can get rickets.

So total covering of women is not a biologicaly good idea, unless they use dietry supliments of vitamin d

bluejelly and fuzzywuzzy, the strict "no religious dress" code is only enforced in schools so men with ringlets I am presuming, would not be attending school.

They do not tell the children how to wear their hair (other than for health and safety reasons), but the children are not to wear anything connected with religion at all.

I think it's a good idea because as a Catholic I would not make my children wear a rosary bead around their neck to mark them out as catholics! Children cannot choose whether or not they want to wear headscarves - parents choose for them. This isn't freedom of choice imo.

It is true that I have my children baptised in the catholic faith and they will make the sacraments once I am satisified that they understand the sacraments and are happy to do so. These are decisions that I will be making for them, but as these decisions do not affect their dress or set them apart from other children in any visible way, I am happy to do this. I will also respect my children if, in the future, they tell me that they no longer want to be catholics.

The French Law is about visible religious items worn by children and I do agree with it. If you take away the headscarves and skullcaps these children look no different from the rest, which is how it should be imo. For ALL religions.