Islam - What do you think?

[ChaCha]

Hello everybody,

I've been posting on MN for years and have met some lovely people on here. I am a practising Muslim, have been for around 6 years and chose this way of life for myself after much soul searching.
I recently met up with some ladies from my PN group here and not an eyelid was batted about my headscarf or the obvious fact that I am a Muslim. We have been chatting online for a year and a half and it has never been an issue.
It shows me that we can live in a tolerant society and that our own beliefs do not need to be forced upon others. I have found the inner peace that I was looking for for so long and this has prompted meto ask the following:

1. What makes you happy/content in life? What/Who do you turn to when you've had a really bad day? Do you often think about death and how does it effect your day to day life?
   
   
2. What comes into mind when you see a woman wearing a headscarf and how do you view Islam?
   
   My thoughts for the day. Thank you. Off to change nappy x

[Blandmum]

I think that jewish boys do start to grow their ringlets before they reach 18. Would more observant Jews be in an all Jewish, non state school in France? Do they exsist?

[speedymama]

Sorry but I was under the impression that honest opinions were being sought. I am a blunt person and have offered similar opinions in RL about many religions that would offend Catholics, Anglicans, Jews, Hindus etc.

That's the problem with religion in this country, the minute someone offers their opinion that others disagree with, you are labelled as rude and offensive.


I will take my leave now.

[Rhubarb]

speedy, if I left every thread that I was argued with on, then I would never be here! Stand your ground woman!

mb, I've no idea if all Jewish schools exist in France. Not in the state sector, but in the private sector probably. Private schools here are different in that you are means tested, so you can end up paying very little for your child to go to a private school.

As far as I am aware, the French ruling only covers dress and not hairstyles. I think that would be up to the school's discretion. If the ringlets were tied back for H&S I don't see there would be a problem.

[spidermama]

I think Britain would do well to learn from the French example. We're always reluctant to protect our identity and quick to deny our culture (especially England) in case it offends.

Sad really.

[bluejelly]

I think people should be totally allowed to hold forthright views-- but I don't believe we have a right to be offensive.
Intelligent critiques of religion are one thing-- castigating vast swathes of the world are another.

[Rhubarb]

Just checked and there are one or two Jewish and Muslim schools in France. Not many but they are set to be on the increase because of the ruling.

And by the way, the riots in France were because of police harrassment of immigrants, poor housing of immigrants and high unemployment. It's like a ticking time bomb. It was nothing to do with the new ruling.

[bluejelly]

Sorry I disagree about the French example. If I was from an ethnic minority I would far rather live in Britain than France.
In London particularly I think multi-culturalism has really worked-- without losing a sense of the so-called British identity.

What makes me proud to be British is our fantastic mix of people from all over the world and our respect and understanding towards different religons.

And I am a complete atheist.

[Patttsy]

My 2p worth:

Re:crime and full veil, when I worked in a central London Magistrates' Court, many shoplifting crimes where committed by ladies in full hijab.

Whether these ladies were Muslim, was not investigated.

[Rhubarb]

She wasn't that offensive! I lol at the thought of nuns going in full habit to do a bank job!

[spidermama]

Lol patttsy.

[Rhubarb]

bluejelly, it goes too far though sometimes

[bluejelly]

Rhubarb that's a one off. It doesn't make me think that Britain has gone too far at all.

[Blandmum]

The TES has had pleanty of correspondents who have said that some women have asked for their student identity photos to be taken of them in full facial covering. These ID cards are used to make sure the right person sits the right exam in FE Collages.

[Rhubarb]

Sadly bluejelly, I have seen enough to know that this was just the one who made it to court.

[Rhubarb]

Although I do respect women who want to wear the headscarf covering, I don't think children should be made to wear it as they don't have a choice in it. And common sense should be applied to things like school uniforms and id photos. This is where I like France's idea, none of the children stand out as different, whereas I feel sorry for the children in the UK whose parents argue against the school for the right to cover their beautiful children up from head to toe - school is bad enough without being made to stick out like a sore thumb!

[bloss]

Message withdrawn

[Saggarmakersbottomknocker]

What makes me happy? My family and a sunny day . Death? I think about it but am not afraid of it, more afraid of what is left behind.

I have no opinion on women wearing a headscarf, it's a cultural choice. I dislike the fully covered face though as I do find it unsettling - not because of any religious issue but because I like to see the facial expressions of people. I find it off-putting when talking to people wearing sunglasses as you can't see the expression fully.

I am dreadfully ignorant of Islam and should read more about it. But the same can be said for my knowledge of other religions. I hold my hand up to being a bit of a 'crisis Christian'.

[Blu]

I too think it is legitimate to discuss the factual / historical aspects of the founding of a religion insofar as we know / understand them. This does not automatically imply criticism of individuals who follow the spiritual / philosophical values or observances of the religion.

There is a practical issue with the debate, though, if people's belief means they are unable to take part in a critical debate, iyswim.

[meowmix]

gotta say that I think speedymama's comments about the basis of muslim faith were unnecessary - and to be honest, rather ill-founded. But thats half the problem in the UK - we don't understand enough about muslims and the way they life their lives, what their belief systems are etc, and the media tend to give us a very slanted view which must be hard for British muslims to put up with.

I do think that we have a far stronger reaction to muslim dress than to other faiths - there's a rastafarian in my office wearing dreads and a marvellous hat - is that offensive? what about the sikh turban? be interesting to know why we find the hijab so threatening

[geekgrrl]

I don't find religious dress per se threatening at all. What I dislike about headscarves & co is the notion that women have a duty to cover themselves up as otherwise men are just going to hurl themselves at them.
And to then sexualise small girls like this too is just vile, imho.

[Greensleeves]

I find the full hijab, where only the eyes are visible, slightly threatening, or off-putting at least. I did explain why - it's because seeing someone's facial expression is such a huge part of communication, and talking to someone whose costume is hiding those complex and essential cues, while they can see your facial expression and body language, feels wrong to me. And I've not been impressed with any of the arguments I've heard from Muslims about why the hijab is a good idea for women. Nothing I've been told about it (by Muslim men and women) has ever rung true for me, I'm afraid. I certainly don't hate or fear Muslims or Islam though.

[meowmix]

oh I totally get it for those out in the heat of the desert, with the dust and everything you get on teh arab peninsula. it makes total sense as a means of protection. What I don't get and would love to know is why arab men wear white and women wear black?

[Blu]

ds is very keen on knights and all things knight-ish - and dp and I have both found it very hard to broker the 'dressing up' version knights outfit with it's Crusaders cross, and different versions of the war over jerusalem at the time. I thought the film version (oh, what's it called?) which shows the wholly destructive, war-mongering doings ot the Templars, as opposed to the diginfied stance of Saladin quite interesting.

I think the whole exciting 'knights' thing sets up a certain mindset in European thinking that is hard to displace.

[fuzzywuzzy]

How about we wear hijaab because we want to ??? It's none of anyones business how I dress, just as I wouldn't dream of dictating how anyone else dresses.

As for little girls wearing headscarves, I think a lot of parents want their children to get used to it, to start as they will go on, it's not a religious requirement for little girls. Also a lot of little children wear headcovering when going to the mosque both boys and girls have some form of headcovering then.

[Tinker]

But this thread is about discussing what you think when you see a woman wearing a headscarf. Legitimate to comment on it.