Islam - What do you think?

[ChaCha]

Hello everybody,

I've been posting on MN for years and have met some lovely people on here. I am a practising Muslim, have been for around 6 years and chose this way of life for myself after much soul searching.
I recently met up with some ladies from my PN group here and not an eyelid was batted about my headscarf or the obvious fact that I am a Muslim. We have been chatting online for a year and a half and it has never been an issue.
It shows me that we can live in a tolerant society and that our own beliefs do not need to be forced upon others. I have found the inner peace that I was looking for for so long and this has prompted meto ask the following:

1. What makes you happy/content in life? What/Who do you turn to when you've had a really bad day? Do you often think about death and how does it effect your day to day life?

2. What comes into mind when you see a woman wearing a headscarf and how do you view Islam?

My thoughts for the day. Thank you. Off to change nappy x

Then why do naked breasts in ugly obvious pumped up largesse, sell millions of newspapers.

yeah but her huge boobies would be covered and arent they what makes her the sex object she is?

its like when a man looks at your bobs and says:

you have a lovely pair of errr ....eyes

yeah right!

yeah but her huge boobies would be covered and arent they what makes her the sex object she is?

its like when a man looks at your boobs and says:

you have a lovely pair of errr ....eyes

yeah right!

Well I agree that Jordan is extremely attractive she has a very pretty face, I think her image is gross though.
I think the overall impact of this kind of soft porn look in everyday life, somehow demeans and generally erodes society bit by bit.
I value modesty, class and style above flesh, and I do not want men other than my dp to see the more private parts of me
I have great legs but I won't wear mini skirt as I am likely to over expose if I sit or bend over.

i cant argue with what either of you are saying.

am trying to think up valid viewpoints, but, not even managing to get to the endof the sentence in my mind as jordan does sell lots adn lots.

I can well understand the argument that the hijab is liberating. To be free from constant judgements about your appearance must be a marvellous thing.

I still don't get what women are being protected from by the hijjab.

I understand how much easier it is to move about unmolested in muslim countries when veiled, but in my experience it's more about male expectations. I get no more attention dressed in ordinary Western clothes in the UK than I did when veiled in muslim countries. It's only when unvieled in muslim countries that I have felt threatened by men.

I don't feel threatened but I do feel judged.

Hmmm, interesting thought bluejelly. To be honest, I feel more judged when I'm swanning around London wearing a headscarf than when I'm not. Maybe it goes back to ChaCha's original point about westerners judging women who wear a hijjab, or maybe I'm just paranoid.

I guess that's a different kind of judging isn't it. I see the headscarf as quite anti-materialist as well.

But is it a different sort of judging? Is it not about how we present ourselves in public and how this accords with men's views of how we should look. I cam across a lovely quote the other day where some woman was going on about how tired she was of "men's idelogical wars being carried out on the battleground of women's bodies." Wish I could remember who said it.

It's about a double standard though isn't it. Why are men not supposed to veil themselves from the gaze of women? Why are they not so harshly judged on their appearance only in the way women are? If a black man complained about being treated differently because of the colour of his skin, would we suggest he liberate himself by covering himself up? Its ridiculous to even suggest it. So why is it different when it is the shape of the skin that is different? Or is it really about keeping women covered and letting them disappear into the background. Cover her up and you can forget she exists. A friend of mine who spent years working in the Gulf told me how it disturbed him that after a very short amount of time he forgot that women even existed. You did not see them in the work place and when you saw them on the street they were so covered up and anonymous as to blend into the background. You did not see them, therefore they did not exist. He found it very disturbing whenever he returned to the UK to see women and have to remember not to dismiss them as irrellevant.

your friend sounds like he was ignorant. He knew that women exsisted because he saw them and if he has to 'remind himself to not dismiss' women here then i think he probably does not respect women in general. Honestly, some peple are so narrow minded.

you did not see them therefore they did not exsist? what a load of cack, and they say travel broadens the mind!

I imagined the headscarf to be quite anti materialistic too, until I saw lots of young girls in headscarves giggling in claires assescories and choosing hair stuff! It all seemed rather pointless to me, but it was an eye opener.

slug - I agree with you on all this completely, yo've put it very well. And I understand what your friend says about women disappearing into the background - TBH it makes perfect sense to me.

girls with scarves are everywhere and still interested in all things young girls like, hair make up etc, seems like all you see is the scarf...

A real quickie from me, am working.

Kelly - Why would it be pointless? There is hair under those scarves you know Do you think we take our scarves off at home, in front of friends, husbands, relatives etc. to reveal a bald head? unattractive hair cut? Tatty hair bands? On the contrary, I cover my hair but know how to 'let my hair down' and make sure it looks its best when necessary. In fact, I have never stopped dressing up!
I have to say though, one of DH's friends did ask him the other day 'Doesn't anyone ever see your wife's hair' he actually thought i had to wear my scarf all the time I think with a lot of religious issues we are all in need of learning a bit more. Me in particular.

That certainly wasn't a quickie. Best dash

Message withdrawn

Bloss, I'm no expert, but I'm guessing it doesn't. I can see that covering up for protection is practical. But I feel that instead we should be working towards educating men to take take more responsibility for their behaviour. I read in this thread that the Quran or the religious society (it seems it's debatable whether this is in the holy book or not) suggests covering your body for protection, so why does it then become something that is seen as a religious act rather than a practical act? I can understand there is something spiritual in devotion to your God, but what is spiritual in taking on a practical suggestion for physical protection? Why is it a symbol of your faith in the existence of your God?

I don't think much of death, and at this point in my life (proably quite far from it), I'm not afraid of it. I feel, like Blu, that I'm just a small part of a huge story, and I am part of it all. I like to think that the energy released from my rotting corpse or ash when I die will give life to other beings ? insects, flowers, trees, fruits that perhaps children will eat.

Laughing with my DH and DS make me happy. Connecting with people on a real level (not just exchanging niceties and predictable conversation) makes me happy too.

Bloss, I'm no expert, but I'm guessing it doesn't. I can see that covering up for protection is practical. But I feel that instead we should be working towards educating men to take take more responsibility for their behaviour. I read in this thread that the Quran or the religious society (it seems it's debatable whether this is in the holy book or not) suggests covering your body for protection, so why does it then become something that is seen as a religious act rather than a practical act? I can understand there is something spiritual in devotion to your God, but what is spiritual in taking on a practical suggestion for physical protection? Why is it a symbol of your faith in the existence of your God?

I don't think much of death, and at this point in my life (proably quite far from it), I'm not afraid of it. I feel, like Blu, that I'm just a small part of a huge story, and I am part of it all. I like to think that the energy released from my rotting corpse or ash when I die will give life to other beings ? insects, flowers, trees, fruits that perhaps children will eat.

Laughing with my DH and DS make me happy. Connecting with people on a real level (not just exchanging niceties and predictable conversation) makes me happy too.

whooops, double posting, and a long one at that - sorry.

ChaCha, what a fascinating thread. Thank you for starting it.

i cant quote chapter and verse, but men are told to lower their gaze and women to cover up.

slug's post makes a lot of sense actually.

Slug does make a lot of sense. Men's ideological battles being fought on women's bodies. Why can't we just be who we are? We can cover up for one society to accept us (ie. feel safe that men in that society will leave us alone), or objectify ourselves sexually in another to feel acceptable.

Whenever I can't be bothered to do anything about my leg or armpit hair and go to the swimming pool with my DS, I ALWAYS get looks. Sometimes, I think there is a touch of fear in those looks, as if I'm diseased in some contagious way (honestly!). Why can't women's bodies be accepted the way God (if you believe in God) or Nature made them?

i thought hair removal was for hygiene purposes, i would expect people in swimming pool to stare at me if i had not shaved my armpits and body hair. I know pools are disgusting in general but i think it makes sense.

i beg to differ slugs post does not make any sense to me, although i respect her opinions.