Islam - What do you think?

[ChaCha]

Hello everybody,

I've been posting on MN for years and have met some lovely people on here. I am a practising Muslim, have been for around 6 years and chose this way of life for myself after much soul searching.
I recently met up with some ladies from my PN group here and not an eyelid was batted about my headscarf or the obvious fact that I am a Muslim. We have been chatting online for a year and a half and it has never been an issue.
It shows me that we can live in a tolerant society and that our own beliefs do not need to be forced upon others. I have found the inner peace that I was looking for for so long and this has prompted meto ask the following:

1. What makes you happy/content in life? What/Who do you turn to when you've had a really bad day? Do you often think about death and how does it effect your day to day life?

2. What comes into mind when you see a woman wearing a headscarf and how do you view Islam?

My thoughts for the day. Thank you. Off to change nappy x

From the moment you entered this world of existence,
A ladder was put in front of you so you could escape. (QUOTE, RUMI)

Oh,there's a cheery thought for me to go to bed with Cha chja.Thanks for that.

Hi Cha cha.Have not read all of thread but
1)Am not religious but respect others viewpoints.The most amazing woman I know is a Moslem.She is a medical person with whom I work.She is the kindest,calmest most unflappable,hardworking person I have ever met
2)The headscarf issue does not bother me in the slightest.I see it as a persons' individual right to wear whatever they please and if for religious/cultural reasons then fine by me!!
3)Do I think about death and dying,well quite frequently as I work in an area that deals with it a lot.

Haven't read thread as too long!!

Must go to bed,but trying to wind down from lateshift!!!!

Serious question here. If veiling the face is Islamic (and there is disagreement of whether it is or if it is cutural) why are omen not allowed to veil their faces when they go to Haj?

And Haj is one of the five pillars of failth for a Muslim?

If women are activly forbidden to veil then, how can it is an Islamic practice?

Different cultures have different laws, you could say that Moslem laws on women's clothes are simply a bit further along than our obscenity laws.
But they're not laws...
They're sexual violence, tolerated by the masses, different thing altogether.
Moslem countries have roving gangs of thugs who attack women wearing "provocative" clothing, makeup etc. This is not law enforcement, this is men who get their jollies from hurting women. Even in Moslem countries such activities usually aren't really exactly sanctioned by the law. But law, but because "men really want to do it", it's OK.
In a civilised country like Britain, a man who slashed a woman with a knife for not wearing enough clothes would be grabbed by the police and/or nearby men and locked up.
In Islamic countries, he'd be a hero amongst his mates.

well in the gulf muslim men do cover their heads, and rather than slave dresses (nice turn of phrase) the hijab is probably a status symbol for the muslim women. Some of them are unbelievably beautiful, yes even in full black. And its logical - I cover up my face and head here from the sun as its flipping hot (48 today and only May... help)

I've asked muslim men here about this - mainly because I wanted to understand if it was a lack of trust in the women or a lack of trust in their fellow men. Its generally completely thrown them that I would even think thats whats behind it. In their eyes its a respect thing - the person in the hijab/niqab is worthy of respect not just as a physical entity.

Also worth pointing out that in the Gulf states its generally decreed that citizens will wear traditional dress as a means of encouraging traditional islamic beliefs. And its only really enforced on the men (also makes it harder for them to go to the western bars).

There are horrific things being done in the name of all faiths to women everywhere. The risk isn't following a religion, its being female.

Martian - You ask a very good question there, I don't know the answer so I will be calling a knowledgable friend later in the morning when she is free. I will post an answer when i get one.

DC - I was given a link to YouTube or whatever it's called recently to watch a clip taken in an Egyptian stadium during a concert or something where a girl was subject to some serious harrassment from both young men and then the police/security I believe it was because of her dress code. Disgusting! Yes, these men are most probably Muslim but it doesn't represent the acts and feelings of thousands of others. My DH and Dad would be the first to stop any such harrassment taking place.

Veiling the face isn't Islamic though - its an interpretation some scholars have made and that people adapt - that's why you wouldn't veil your face at hajj - as far as I understand it

Moondog - the restrictions aren't because of men's stupidity - its what we have been ordered to do - simple as that! I don't question why I shouldn't eat Pork or drink alcohol - I just do it!

The mens restrictions to clothing are as follows:

Should cover area between navel and knee
Should not be tight fitting in this area
Should not be see through in this area
Should not be specifically women's clothing
It should not be ostentatious or showy
It should not be silk
The lower garment should be raised above the ankle

So, as far as I'm concerned, the men do have restrictions but they just have less to cover up than we do - simple really!!

This whole issue of covering up to protect us from men seems to be the one area that people are zeroing in on all the time and to be honest, there are more important things to be considered! I personally don't feel safe as a woman in Britain these days. I hate walking home in the dark, I hate sleeping in my house alone and yet this is supposed to be a free society - its not! I can't even leave my back door open and nip up to the loo for fear of some opportunist sneaking in and nicking stuff!

There are thousands of women out there who have little or no self esteem...they hate the way they look, they don't feel they can go to a pub and enjoy themselves unless they look a certain way to please men and society in general - freedom? I think not!

I don't think men and women in general have any respect for each other these days and I think its because a lot of men and women (not all) don't behave in a way that commands respect - have you seen any town on a Saturday night?? Women pulling their knickers down in the street to urinate when drunk and can't wait until they get to the next loo and then they bleat that men only sleep with them for fun and leave them and men pulling their pants down and mooning at every car that drives past! You couldn't go for a nice family walk down by the river here on a Saturday night - too scary! Freedom??!!

Also, women are not equal here as we would like to think! The gender pay gap still exists, the number of men in senior positions is still greater than that of a woman and the onus is stil on women for the majority of child care and housework as well as working!

Fully agree that we are not as equal as we should be in the West. However discrimination is (theoretically) illgal in the West and is not enshrined in Law, as it is in Sharia.

Which part of Shariah law are you referring too?

PS Hows DH?

Not bad, we are going for chemo in a few minutes So he will be a bit poorly after that.

There are lots of places where the rights of women are not the same as those of men. Two women= 1 adult muslim witness for example.

Divorse rights are not the same for men and women unless they write them into their marriage contract..

Wheras sharia gave women far more rights than they had prior to islam (the Locals of Mecca saying that the Prophet would have them think that horses had rights next etc ) Men and women are not equal under sharia law

Sending loads of good luck vibes to your DH from me and the BFG clan.....my Grandad has bladder cancer - going in hospital today for an op either tmw or Thurs to remove prostate and bladder with a scan to see how far its spread...horrible worry isn't it!

Oooh DS is waking from his nap and I still haven't had my shower yet! gotta go!!

Funny isn't it, I don't see a stampede of UK based Muslim women rushing to live in the more progressive and enlightened Muslim countries dotted about the world, where they can live their religion freely and unfettered by Western purgatory.

Plenty coming the other way though.

had to laugh at this part of the mens dress code

"Should not be see through in this area"

generally the thobe (male arab dress, long white thing) is completely see-through in height of summer and there seems to be a desparate shortage of underwear this year. Added to the understandable desire to hoick it up to ones knees while seated to get airflow to the area.

yours with eyes raised to ceiling ....

Hi ChaCha

I have a close friend who is Muslim and we have full and frank discussions about the current state of Islam. She is a lovely, kind, considerate person and she is desperately sad about the way her religion has been hijacked by extremists.

She doesn't wear a headscarf, nor do her sisters, but it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if she did.

She was actually my bridesmaid at our wedding(in church) and no-one batted an eyelid.

Nikki, hope that your grandad recoveres well and sending all best wiahes.

Dh was given this week and next week off as a drug 'holiday'. Which is great since the drugs, while keeping him alive, do make him feel rather ill poor chap.

Still, mustn't grumble, he is officially now living past his 'expiry date'

I have jusr read 'The Ialamist' by Ed Husain. A facinating read for anyone interested in the difference between Islam and Islamism (as a political 'creed' for want of a better word)

A rattling good book, and exceptionally interesting. I'd recomend it to anyone.

I completely agree that women are not as equal as we thought we would be by now, and I also agree that there are certain members of society that behave in a way that most of us find unacceptable and quite depressing (as in the drunken behavour in our town centres).

However I dont see how the solution to this is by subjecting half your citizens to a life watched from behind a veil (I know I am being a bit extreme here but I am trying to make a point).

Do Muslim men think the only way to control women is by making them wear restrictive clothing? Or is it the women themselves that think they are gaining something, please explain.

I have no problem with the covering of ones head it is the face veil. However you want to put it you are cutting yourself off from the vast majority of society, and also making many ordinary moderate people feel ucomfortable and even threatened at times, does this not matter??

MB the clothes worn during the pilgrimage are ones shroud. Neither the male nor the female shroud covers the face.

I thought 'feedom' meant you had more choices, not fewer?

"However I dont see how the solution to this is by subjecting half your citizens to a life watched from behind a veil"

Agree and not only that, women are erased from society as a whole.

A Muslim friend sent me this last year.

This sums it up for me:

"Amnah Nousir, a professor of Islamic philosophy, told the Dubai-based Gulf News that "The niqab was common in the Arabian Peninsula centuries before Islam and was not imposed by this religion."

"The face is one's mirror. So why should the woman hide herself behind this black veil?" she told Gulf News.

Gamal el-Banna, a liberal Muslim thinker, said recently "the niqab is an insult and he who calls for it is backward".

Amen to that!

Grreat link thaks for that

that was a brilliant link thanks

Speedymama-excellent point of 11:52

Yes and great link of 14:26.

The argument is either that women are of so little worth that need to be hidden away or of such great worth that they need to be hidden away.