Islam - What do you think?

[ChaCha]

Hello everybody,

I've been posting on MN for years and have met some lovely people on here. I am a practising Muslim, have been for around 6 years and chose this way of life for myself after much soul searching.
I recently met up with some ladies from my PN group here and not an eyelid was batted about my headscarf or the obvious fact that I am a Muslim. We have been chatting online for a year and a half and it has never been an issue.
It shows me that we can live in a tolerant society and that our own beliefs do not need to be forced upon others. I have found the inner peace that I was looking for for so long and this has prompted meto ask the following:

1. What makes you happy/content in life? What/Who do you turn to when you've had a really bad day? Do you often think about death and how does it effect your day to day life?

2. What comes into mind when you see a woman wearing a headscarf and how do you view Islam?

My thoughts for the day. Thank you. Off to change nappy x

the headscarf ban I was alluding to was to a young medical student who was kicked out of uni for it, happened about five seconds after the french headscarf uproar.... which lead me to believe turkey had not been enforcing the hijaab ban with much vigour until recently.

Turkey's going through a tough political time isn't it at the moment, something about the horrors of a islamic government.

A country where men can look at female colleagues without thinking rape and lust whilst the women wear much what the men wear is what most of us manage to achieve and I think most businesswomen in Morocco and Turkey who don't by any means feel religiously they have to cover up achieve too and int he City of London too. I know Muslim businesswomen who are very anti-head scarves. It is by no means a settled issue. Covering is only needed in days and states where men can't control their urges and the law does not protet women. In the UK we have sex discrimination law and men who can actually treat women properly so there is no need to cover up at all in my view.

What makes me happy? My children, a boost at work, a sunny day, a new dress, talking with a friend, a glass of wine, an achievement, a positive change in my life, doing the garden, a clean house, meeting someone interesting...million things. Who do I turn to? My husband, my friends, a hot bath, some mindless telly Do I often think about death? No, sometimes...doesn't affect my life at all, except sometimes I promise I'll appreciate every minute more, then forget that and just live normally.

When I see a woman in a headscarf? Depends. If I see a woman with a small girl in headscarf not going swimming while their brother does, like I did today, i think it's awful and sad. If I see the chic doctor who did my scans I think, oh, she's a muslim, oh well, she seems nice. I have pretty negative views of Islam as I see it as anti-women and founded by a pretty unpleasant character but I wouldn't shun, be mean to or discriminate against anyone because of it.

Aloha. I also feel sad when I see a small girl in a headscarf not able to swim etc.

I understand adults of all religions covering their heads as a sign of modesty. But a child?

I've seen 5 yeasr olds in |Malaysia trussed uo in headscarves.It upset me beyond belief,the tacit assumpton that a 5 year old is a sexual being and someone to be covered up.

Turkey doesn't ban anything.You can dress how you like.However one is not to wear headscarves and so on in public buildings.

In many (not necessarily Islamic) states/countries, child brides are common. I imagine this may be the case in Malaysia.

Is this legal in these countries, or just custom? I've often wondered this.

Dont know what you mean.
Things taht are traditional are not necessarily illegal surely? marriage in our own country for starters.

i don't think child brides are legal in Malaysia.

It irks me when any criticism of a religion (of any sort) is waved away with a 'Oh that's cultural stuff, not religious.' Rightyo. As if one can separate the two.

I stil lwant to know why blokes aren;t wearing headscarves and veils.

Because men have less to cover than women - simple as that. Men are required to cover the parts which are deemed attractive to other women -ie no tight t-shirts, covered from naval to below knee and preferably with a beard. For women, it means covering the chest and hair....its not that complicated really...well, I don't find it so.

As for the children wearing headscarves - its not for those reasons at all! A lot of times little ones like to copy their mums and so they put hejab on them and also its to get them used to wearing it, rather than having this whole new thing when they reach puberty. The little boys dress like their dads when they go to the mosque as well - skull caps etc - they do the same in the Jewish faith with yarmukles as well.
Its just to get them used to the whole thing - thats all.

The whole covering issue is not just about men controlling themselves....it goes far deeper than that! Why not have a go at reading some Islamic books written by women -From My Sister's Lips by Na'aima B Robert for example - always worth trying to find out more if there are things you don't understand and other people can put the point across far more effectively than I can - am a relative newbie to Islam

Well, I could get my daughter used to period by making her wear a tampon every month, but I think that would be stupid.

'Men are required to cover the parts deemed attractive to women' you say Nikkie.
So why do women have to cover their hair and men don't then. Are we asuming that women don't find men's hair attractive?

Well....

Eh?
So you've got to cover your hair to stop other women feeling bad about themselves?
So..why aren't handsome men covering up themselves for same reason??

Nikki,i have read plenty,have plenty of Muslim friends and have lived in Muslim countries.I am however interested in how you and others see it.

At the moment it isn't making sense at all I'm afraid.

Ahh...how I see it?? Oooh....

Well, I've only just started to wear the hejab so its all very new to me, but for me I just like the fact that I'm doing what God wanted me to do (along with not drinking alcohol, eating Pork etc) and I just love that when I'm walking down the street, that other men don't know what I look like under the headscarf...only DH does..

I just personally think that the Koran is God's word and the Hadith and Sunnah are interpretations of that and from that, its taken that women need to cover and that's good enough for me

So it's good enough for you that women as you see it are meant to cover their hair and bodies and men don't?

But men do cover! Just not in the same way as women need to...

But you still haven't offered a resonable explanation of why this is so and this is what I would like.

No way can a suit or shrt and jeans be equated with for example,the long coat and headscarf that i am familiar with from living in Eastern Turkey.

Oh for heavens sake what nonsense. So religion is all about protecting us from other people who may be different from ourselves? I tell you, there are plenty of men who feel very traumatised about being bald! This is just crap, it really is.

But women can wear suits, we can wear shirts! I know I do!!

People deciding to wear a long coat and cover up more is a personal choice...I wear jeans, I wore suits in my pre DS days - nowt wrong with it! As long as not clinging to arse with VPL on show etc etc! The long coat dress code is more cultural I think - rather like chadoors - these are actually Persian, not Islamic...

Also, men are defined in Islam as visual creatures - very susceptible to what they see and so one of the many reasons for covering is a way of forcing them to get to know the woman's personality and not just getting to know her because he liked the look of her chest! I know you will be screaming at this reasoning but I personally think it holds a lot of sense. Women are generally (and I say generally!) not as physical as men and so not so much chance of us only wanting a bloke on the basis of how he looks....

You won't agree I know

So never letting people spend time alone together and having their marriage arranged by parents is a way of helping them get to know each others personality ?

God help you Nikki......
Even as you write it you know it holds no water at all.
You're married to a Syrian aren't you?

So not only are women dememaned by being basically told to cover up and be ashamed of their bodies,so are men in that they are treated as lechers and perverts who can't keep their sexual urges under control.

sorry about this I may be taking discussion in completely wrong direction but here goes anyway. I live in a part of Britain with large Muslim community and have noticed a marked increase in wearing of full veil since Jack Straw comments about not being part of society etc. As a feminist the full veil makes me feel very uncomfortable, and yes I know many women say it is their choice to wear it but why?

Surely you are cutting yourself off from the rest of society, I wouldnt feel able to strike up a conversation with someone in a bus queue wearing the full veil for example. I am afraid it does lead to the feeling that we have two separate societies living side by side but never mixing.

I have several female muslim friends and I would honestly find it very difficult to carry on our friendship if they took to wearing a full veil. Maybe that is a failing on my part but I would take it as a sign that they wanted to be separate.

Arranged marriages are not Islamic. Each partner has the right to accept/decline the other partner as Islam puts much emphasis on the stablilty of marriage and so encourages partners to be suited to each other.

People don't just meet one day and get married the next you know! My friends in Syria have had engagements lasting about a year or two. Time to buy a flat, decorate it etc, ready to move into for when they are married. They take time to get to know each other and if they don't like each other, then it doesn't happen! Ok, they don't sleep together but hey, no biggie! Its nice to save it for marriage!

I actually don't see (loosely arranged0 marriages as a bad thing at all.
I still want to know why men don't need to cover thier hair though and women do.

Ha ha!!! How can you make the assumption it holds no water at all for me?!

I agree with the veil issue, I would find it hard - but thats because I'm deaf and I need to lipread But, its a personal choice...I feel uncomfortable when I see people walking around with no shirts on (men), guts hanging out or women with nothing left to imagination, short skits etc but I just think oh well, free country!