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999 replies

Januarymadness · 24/04/2013 21:05

Right I am going to bite. I shouldnt have looked at the facebook but I did.

Mr Ruggles you have made some horrible accusations. You have claimed everyone who disagreed with you was an atheist who lacked logic and reasoning. You were wrong on ALL counts. Many people told you they were Christian or Theists, they just didn't agree with you. The thread was also full of valid scientific arguments which were well worded and full of logic and reasoning.

You have also accused us all of being bullies. Something I saw no evidence of. Not agreeing with someone is not bullying.

So please do feel free to justify your off board comments here as speaking behind peoples backs is really not on.

Please could someone link to the old thread. Thanks

OP posts:
daftdame · 10/05/2013 10:28

BackOnlyBriefly Not read the whole thread, but about the toast, have you read anything concerning visual perception and what scientists know about it?

I think it is amazing how much the brain subconsciously actually fills in the gaps and adds to / changes the information delivered by the optic nerve. So what you see is also interactive, not purely as a machine would see.

Now with someone, a Christian, who actually has a personal relationship with God, through Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, that interaction would include God, in this way the recognition is Divine. Smile.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 10:29

Sorry, BestValue, I didn't mean 'your mission'.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, all these arguments from the atheists here saying that they are loving and moral despite a lack of belief in God are just proving the opposite when debating with you. I'm astonished at the sneery venom from Ellie and Pedro and you display none of that.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 10:33

But hang on a minute - your Bible says that Jesus had no sin. So he was presumably innocent. Yet your god nevertheless arranged to have even him killed.

My poor little atheist mind is struggling to understand these massive contradictions conundrums.

Well I will help you, Snorbs ('cos I'm nice like that): Jesus is God. So, yes, that was some sacrifice.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 10/05/2013 11:05

Jewcy, on the subject of personal attacks - we got thorough a whole 1000 post thread, which had been going since the end of March, plus another half thread with (I believe) not one single deletion.

Then you start posting on Wednesday afternoon, and you have had 3 posts deleted by MNHQ. Nobody else has been deleted.

Think about it.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 10/05/2013 11:24

So I guess before the time of Aristotle things could just exist and not exist at the same time.

Er, not quite, no. Logic is purely human reasoning - or to quote wikipedia - the study of human modes of reasoning, those which are valid and those which are fallacious.

To my reasoning, it's fallacious that there is an all-powerful being that created the universe, knows my innermost thoughts and will one day judge me.

To your reasoning, going by what you've posted here, this is not fallacious.

Neither viewpoint means that anything can literally, physically, "exist" or "not exist" at the same time.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 10/05/2013 11:40

I do believe that there is an evolutionary explanation for altruism too. Higher animals that co-operate and are kind to each other (for want of a better word) are more likely to survive, prosper and find a mate.

Altruism has been observed in birds - squawking when they see a predator. Altruistic, because the predator will immediately be drawn to the noise, but good for the survival of the flock.

Did you know a group of male dolphins will gang-rape a female dolphin? Those sweet creatures. (Now you know why they're always smiling.)

Not your finest comment, Best Hmm Do you often make rape jokes?

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 11:42

Jewcy, on the subject of personal attacks - we got thorough a whole 1000 post thread, which had been going since the end of March, plus another half thread with (I believe) not one single deletion.

That is because:

a) I am honest

b) I am unused to mumsnet and the nuances of acceptable/unnacceptable rage (otherwise known as passive-aggression and, well..real, honest rage).

Then you start posting on Wednesday afternoon, and you have had 3 posts deleted by MNHQ. Nobody else has been deleted.

That is because:

a) I am intolerant of arseholes (bad, bad Christian)

b) The rest of you dress up your bile as as disingenuity thereby avoiding the admonishments of MNHQ.

c) At least one of you who could have been justifiably reported wasn't. That's because I am a grown-up who can take what she dishes out (unlike the majority of the atheists on here. I am thinking particularly of Pedro, Ellie & SGB who respond in barely-concealed fury when they are beaten in an argument).

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 10/05/2013 11:51

I don't agree that any argument has been 'beaten' - certainly not the one against young earth creationism. Its a discussion thread.

I think what you mean is "I agree with Best" - which is fine.

Personally, I am very much in agreement with Ellie, Pedro & SGB. We have different viewpoints from you, that's all.

daftdame · 10/05/2013 11:52

SabrinaMullhollandJJones Schroedinger's Cat Grin.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 12:00

Sabrina, I just love how you focused on the 'beaten' bit...I think it's called 'ego'.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 12:06

Personally, I am very much in agreement with Ellie, Pedro & SGB. We have different viewpoints from you, that's all.

It is not their viewpoints which bamboozle me; it's the barely-contained fury which is so completely lacking in Best's posts. I want to understand it.

daftdame · 10/05/2013 12:09

Sabrina apologies that should be Schrödinger's Cat re. existing and not existing at the same time.

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 12:39

It apparently isn't working for you, is it Pedro.

How so?

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 12:44

Anyone with half a brain can tell you that Hitler was full of hate. A true Christian is one who loves God and strives to love his neighbour as himself.

You'll also note that whether Hitler was a christian or not is irrelevant to my point if you read the rest of the post.

Would you suggest that a Muslim suicide bomber isn't a Muslim?

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 12:53

Schrödinger's Cat re. existing and not existing at the same time.

The cat was a thought experiment designed to demonstrate how quantum physics didn't make sense. Schrodinger didn't accept the theory. It wasn't designed to explained QP.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 13:21

You'll also note that whether Hitler was a christian or not is irrelevant to my point if you read the rest of the post.

I'm telling you that Hitler was not a Christian - whatever the maniac did or did not say. I do not know what the Koran says about muslim suicide bombing, do you? If you can tell me that, then I will tell you whether said suicide bomber is muslim or not.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 13:24

I also do not believe that atheism is a 'non-thing'. It is a set of beliefs like any other religion.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 13:27

...but I can see why that idea would be frightful to atheists who love to attest to their autonomous selves.

daftdame · 10/05/2013 13:32

Pedro so do you believe in Quantum Physics? Why do think it does not make sense? Is it because it does not exist of because we, as humans, do not know thus can not make sense everything?

Would you say that in fact reality can exist beyond our realisation of it?

daftdame · 10/05/2013 13:34

that should be of everything and Why do you and of.

Sorry typing too fast for my fingers!

Snorbs · 10/05/2013 13:36

Well I will help you, Snorbs ('cos I'm nice like that): Jesus is God. So, yes, that was some sacrifice.

Thanks for the attempt but your response answers a different question to the one I was asking.

Best claimed that his god never killed innocent people. The Bible says that Jesus was without sin. Yet this god reputedly arranged for Jesus to be killed. How does the suggestion that Jesus is a god change this?

Saying that your statement raises yet more questions. Principally, if Jesus was a god at the time of the crucifixion then how on earth could he be killed by mere mortals? An immortal being being crucified isn't a sacrifice, it's an inconvenience.

daftdame · 10/05/2013 13:39

I'll post that again. Ironically, with all the typos it is pretty incoherent.

Pedro so do you believe in Quantum Physics? Why do you think it does not make sense? Is it because it does not exist or because we, as humans, do not know, thus can not make sense of everything?

Would you say that in fact reality exists beyond our understanding of it?

infamouspoo · 10/05/2013 13:40

christian haters think of themselves as 'true christians' Look at the Westboro baptist church. They think of themselves as 'true christians' regardless of what anyone else said. I suspect Hitler thought the same.

daftdame · 10/05/2013 13:41

Snorbs Jesus chose to die. It was a willing sacrifice.

SolidGoldBrass · 10/05/2013 13:41

What bemuses me about the superstitious is their insistence that they are right when they are completely and utterly incapable of demonstrating this. No one has ever been able to put forward a proper argument in favour of their imaginary friend, whether that's Jesus, Allah, Satan or Ceridwen, that doesn't boil down to 'It just IS TRUE! It is, it is, it is, waaaaaaaah!'

Again: having imaginary friends that are kind and loving and comforting, and want you to be likewise and treat other people well, and make you feel a bit happier is not only fine, but totally not my problem in the first place. But the trouble is that a lot of people's imaginary friends are shitheads. And that tends to be because the people who invented them were shitheads, motivated by the wish to have power over other people and get the best of available resources. And some people still think that having an imaginary friend is a justification for harming other people, denying them their rights and even killing them. That's why it's important to mock and belittle superstition, and condemn every bit of bullshit that the superstitious come out with which is actively harmful ie racism, misobyny, homophobia and of course blasphemy laws, which should all be abolished.