I have absolute proof that there is no God.

[seeker]

I've just seen in our local paper that a little girl who lives in our town has died. She has been the focus of much prayer since she was taken ill last year. Her parents were thoroughly good Christian people who trusted God absolutely.

The is no way that a loving, omnipotent, beneficent God who notes even a sparrow falling would not have answered these people's prayer.

So, if I had even a scintilla of doubt, it is now gone. There is no God.

For the first time ever I'm beginning to question my faith because of this and several other threads I've read in the last week on here. I hate it. I wish I had never read any of it but I have to admit those of you who don't believe have really given me food for thought.

I thought I was rock solid in my faith but now I've questioned it and read this whole thread I feel like I'm in some horrible limbo land. It's scary, really scary.

If you don't believe or have never believed you won't understand why it's scary but it really is

I suddenly feel alone. I can't explain it, I just do. There was a plan, a reason, a purpose and now there's nothing.

As I type this I'm praying for guidance. Pleading for some sign that it's okay, I was right all along and it's reasonable to continue. There's no sign.

I haven't felt this fucked up in a long time.

I love Lionel Blue, Juggling! Good to hear he's still talking & thinking :)

Bertha, the selfish gene holds good with compassion theory. Like other pack/tribal animals, we benefit from working in teams and looking out for those who would look out for us.

There is something else, though. Even plants 'scream' when a neighbouring plant is cut. Obviously they don't make a noise but they undergo a hormone surge, which prompts a sudden discharge of electrical energy. This weirdly ties in with what Native Americans did centuries ago, protecting neighbouring trees when they had to cut one down.

I don't claim to know what that's all about - neither does science, as far as I know - but it comes close to the ideas expressed when spiritual persons talk about "energy" between all things. OK, to me this "energy" is always electricity and I think the fact that everything is held together by electricity (or gravity/magnetism, let's not go there just yet) will turn out to explain stuff that currently resides in the region of superstition.

I hadn't heard that pigeon story! Brilliant! Yeah, it's all about pattern-seeking, isn't it ... Looking for control in one's life. Reminds me, I must train my cat. Apparently it will stop her being so neurotic :)

I hope you're OK CookieRookie - I'm sorry that questioning things is feeling so uncomfortable for you. But it could be the next chapter in your life journey .... it doesn't have to be an end of something, it can, in whatever way, be a new beginning.

Oh heck, Cookie :(

No, I can't say I know what you're going through. It must, though, be of a similar nature to what I felt when the reality of my husband's abuse started to dawn. I loved & believed in him - and he wasn't, actually, the person I loved after all. Felt like being in some sort of horror-movie earthquake.

There's always the option of praying for renewed faith?

While you're thinking about it, may I recommend Bill Bryson's A Short History Of Nearly Everything? It asks questions and answers them - scientifically :)

CookieRookie,

There is nothing to be scared about (albeit I can not put myself in your position as I have never "got" religion).

At the end of the day, you focus in life (your reason) will no doubt have been on your family, friends, community etc, and this doesn't change just because you don't have faith.

The universe and everything in it still remains a beautiful place, but is even more exciting when you think that it just happened and evolved that way!

I'd recommend Lionel Blue's books to anyone too - he's very good at looking at both the good things and the challenges of faith in a very intelligent, human, and often funny way.

and garlicnuts' suggestion to read Bill Bryson's book is an excellent one. It is really interesting and has lots of amazing things in it to inspire.

Funnily enough I've been loving reading several of Bill Bryson's travel books this summer ... I'm just reading his English one "Notes from a small island"

• I think he's a great writer, one of my favourites just now.

Perhaps I should give the rather daunting "A Short History ..." a whirl next ?

CookieRookie - I've been where you are... in my late teens/early 20s I was a born-again Christian. Then I began to question my faith since I never experienced the things others in my church did, the feelings of closeness to god, the visions, the prophecies etc etc. I begged on my knees for god to show himself to me, I cried, I screamed, I sought him with every inch of my soul, and all I heard back was the emptiness of the universe and I felt so alone and afraid.

Then one day I realised that there was no god, the only person I could believe in was me, my fate was up to me, I got to decide my own moral compass, I could live my life the way that seemed best to me. I have never felt such peace as I did at that moment.

I love living my own life, it being me against the universe. I know I'm just an insignificant blip, but that's okay, because for what it's worth I'm going to try to leave this world better than I found it, I'm going to try to make my own small difference and make the most I can of what I've got. It was so liberating for me. I hope that it will be for you too.

A short story... is really well written too. It has some challenging bits (don't be put off by the first couple of pages), but he gives you a nice breather on a regular basis. I read it about 6 years ago so it is a bit distant in my mind now, but from memory it isn't an anti-religion book in any way (I don't think it even mentions religion once), but just a very interesting book about the universe. I seem to recall the chapter about the Yellowstone Park Mountain Range was my favourite. I must have another read!

I've had crises of faith too CR - and love Annie's inspiring post ...

I still have a faith of sorts - as I enjoy spiritual writings and thoughts, and like being part of a faith community - for me that's now the Quakers who are very liberal but mainly in the Christian tradition. I value what I find from other faiths too though, like Lionel Blue who writes from the Jewish tradition, and Pema Chodron, a wise writer from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition.

If you move on there are many new things to discover which you can value just as much or more than the ideas you may have grown up with ...

liberating is a word I've often heard used when people leave their faith behind. I hope you find it so too cookie, if that's the direction you choose to take.

When I was a child, my mum used to tell me that God not only knew everything I did, but had my whole life mapped out for me.

Then I got abducted by a paedophile (neighbour) when I was 7, and again sexually assaulted by a man in a lift when I was 12. That's when I stopped believing in (any) God, and stopped going to church. Nothing since then has convinced me to go back.

God has a plan for everyone

Harry. I don't know what to say but don't want to say nothing. Sorry.

Hi cookie. I am an ex christian. (still feels odd saying that). Don't be scared, in reality nothing has changed. It's a lot to think about but we owe it to ourselves to check our beliefs hold water. Am happy to answer any questions you have as I probably went through similar feelings to you.

I have also had a crisis of faith after trying to concieve for 13 years. at the introduction session there were 24 couples and the doctor in charge said only 6 of you will leave with a baby.

I then read online that people who have prayers said for them, have double the sucess rate than those who dont have prayers said for them, even if the people trying to get pregnant didnt belive in God. These are actual facts.

IVF is a minefield in the christian belief. My dad siad 'what you are doing is against God and you get what you deserve'

BUT, I did have people praying for me, God did guide the hand of the doctor who helped me and I did get a lovely daughter. I did get what i deserve - she is fantastic!

BUT do i get a strange feeling, when my dd writes a message to God on a stone? yes i do.

CookieRookie,Im going to answer you first.I would be scared too if I was in your position.
What has given you reason to doubt?
Occasionally Christians do get the feeling of being alone.But it isnt then to do with God,It is to do with us.
Personally when that happens,I get away from things,and go outside to nature.Nature is God.I look at birds,trees,flowers.And especially the sky.And think about all the planets,sun.,moon etc,and realise that I could not make that,nor a whole group of people.It is impossible.
Amd I would have a tiny read of the bible.
And if all that didnt make me feel reconnected,I would be in the company of another Christian.And I would go to the vicar or whatever,if it turned into a longer term problem.At the very least,all of that would make me feel more peaceful.

HarryRedknappsDog,did your mum or other members of your family believe in God?

Harry that's a terrible story, I'm so sorry to read what you had to deal with.
Religion is great for some, it provides a moral compass and gives people hope when life sucks but an unfortunate side effect is that people believe life can be altered by their faith.
If there is a god, I think the best way I've thought of describing it is
If you emigrated to a small tropical island leaving your mother behind and their were no phones (or Internet) she still loves you but she does not control what happens to you every day and there is no way to prove whether she exists or not without going back home.

I think Annie has described things best though, we are all alone and life is down to us. No one else to blame and no one else to fix it for us. It is a short existence and we have to try and make the best of our time here.

I would also advise you Cookie to stay away from this thread.I know of a Christian woman,who used to go to a bible study group,or something like that.But she said she used to come away more confused than when she started.So for her,it was the right decision not to carry on going to that group.

Harry - how horrific!

Imsotired - just because you read on the Internet that prayer doubles the chances of IVF working, it doesn't make it true - in fact, it isn't true in the slightest, it is a lie.

You can not Just accept "facts" like that from the WWW unless they are backed up with scientific research and data, and that research has gone through a process of healthy critique.

There are millions of people in the world who use the Internet to lie to people, However everything I an the other atheists) have personally posted on this thread is supported by proper research and data (please free to test us in this).

Surely you must see the difference - can you?

Cookie - I hope you are feeling better this morning.

I encourage you to do what ever you feel is best for you. However, reading the Bill Bryson book as already suggested will give you a view of the beauty of the universe without having your faith knocked (like it is on this thread). It will help you make a balanced decision for yourself based upon facts.

Have fun - the universe is a beautiful place! It is so nice that you are finally able to see it for what it is!

Harry- I don't have the words to express how I feel about your post. I hope your mother lost her faith too.

Cookie- it must be hard. But keep thinking and reading (not just this thread) and things will become clearer.

Amillionyears- surely you can see that a faith that cannot resist challenge is useless?

"I personally have a bit of a problem with science.Some scientists,it seems to me,change their minds.And can be quite often.So,it seems to me,science can be based sometimes on shifting sands."

Of course science changes its mind. All science can say "this is how things can be explained with the information we have now. This could very well change if new evidence comes to light" That is why it's exciting and dynamic and useful.

Faith and superstition say that "this is what we believe, and no amount of evidence to the contrary is going to make us change our minds" how can an intelligent person have that mindset?

Oh, and I found the Short History of Everything hard going to read- but it is a fantastic audiobook. Try it that way!