To not want to be a Muslim

[Lostagain]

Ok so I am a Muslim, have 2 dd and married dh is a convert to Islam....
Anyway from a young age I have had a strong pull towards Christianity or aspects of it. I don't believe Jesus is the son of god, but do believe he will return again etc.
Is it a cultural thing? I was born and brought up in the uk, went to a cofe school for a few years then we went to a inner city which was full of Asians- I am Asian but it was horrible, I hated it. Despite this I still sang on the school choir, certain people were horrified at the time, but my mum supported me. In my teens i went a bit religion mad and started wearing a headscarf etc- didn't last long,
i love Christmas and Easter, I sing hymms when I'm washing up i've been to a few church's in my time, funerals weddings etc and to be honest it's so peaceful there.
I have been to mosques it was ok,actually I couldn't wait to get out of there....Maybe it's a language barrier
I haven't spoken to anyone about this as it is such a big thing -changed my name on mn but sometimes I just don't want to be a Muslim. I want to bring up my children with faith and I struggle to explain the Muslim faith.

I'm sure there is the odd sentence in the above which makes sense :)

Hi lostagain, i was quite surrounded by christianity - catholicism in particular at school. We had mass every week, RE was always very full on - i knew all of mark's testament and the sacraments - even got an A grade in RE (not in many other subjects though! )
:)

At most places that i have worked, i have been the only muslim there and therefore get a lot of questions asked about islamic faith as a result.
In fact, one of my colleagues is quite spiritual and at lunch breaks, he frequently visits the quiet room at work - as do I (a room designated for all faiths and none) and he sits in silent meditation. He has his beliefs and I have mine, but that does not mean that there isnt that peaceful feeling there if you know what i mean.

If all your colleagues were all muslims with one christian, the christian would possibly also feel at peace if all muslims said a prayer in ENGLISH as one can connect with something one actually understands.

On another slightly lighter note, I still to this day do not understand some of the swear words that are said in the language of my 'ethnic origin' - but luckily i knew not to bother asking mum what it meant!

Which just leads me off the point even more when i remember that i laughed saying to my dad that i heard someone calling someone a silly twat
To me a twat was the french word 'toit' pronounced 'twat' - i didnt realise it was a swear word in english and that the kid wasnt speaking french!!

You should have seen my dad's face! Yes, i was very naive in those days! still am

Defuse your post has cheered me up no end!

Are u quite religious as a Muslim these days? We're u taught about Islam at home, to counterbalance your education in a catholic school?

yes i was taught at home -actually it was someone else's home that i used to go to, to learn to recite the quran. It was crammed and my legs used to hurt and everyone used to rock back and forth - very cultural!

Now, my style is much much different....very british :)

Oh god yes, I remember the rocking back and forth, I was taught at an early age at someone's house- v v scary lady, I remember her wearing the full dress, in a pale blue- tbh didn't really understand a word she was saying, but she had her daughters with her who were really nice and spoke to us in English! Bless them.

When we moved we went to a mosque now that was a whole new ball game! I hated every minute of it and used to plead with. MY mum to let me stay at home, which she eventually did, after i had finished the quran.
Remember running home from mosque at the end of a session once to watch neighbours as I didn't want to miss Scott and Charlene's wedding! i was about 8/9- ah the memories.....

Well, i never got to go to a mosque - girls were not allowed in that mosque in the area!!!

So i spent my entire childhood never having been in a mosque until i became an adult and realised that it is 'ethnic culture' that stops women going to the mosque, not religion... and that not all cultures and mosques do that! In fact, islam actively encourages women to attend mosques.

At least your class finished by the time neighbours came on - we would completely miss home and away AND neighbours!! oh the injustice!! :D

:)

Defuse - you are funny

"To me a twat was the french word 'toit' pronounced 'twat"

Except that 'toit' is pronounced "to-wah"

nailak - He has a very bizarre TV show where he talks very strangely with dolled up silicon women. I've never watched it but if you give me the link, I will take a look and tell you what they are on about.

cote...yes you are right about the french pronunciation...and in slang and regional accent the swear word twat was pronounced 'twa' (missing the last 't' off - so very similar to the french pronunciation) if you know what i mean! :)

but why? what is the point of the show? I am baffled, look

defuse sounds exactly like me!!! I rocked up in London from TGE burbs with all these south asians/Arabs!!

Rather scary

I get all judged of British born Asians and assume they are not welleducated abd small minded religious nuts - but like those raised abroad as they havemoved with the times and are not from 1950s village mindset!!

Hi lostagain,
I'd say, before looking into other faiths, learn about your own first. There's very little in your post which is religion, its all culture. I converted to Islam 8 years ago from Christianity, but I read extensively on Christianity first. I need to be able to explain my decision to leave Christianity as much as I need explain my decision to convert to my new faith. Knowledge is the key...
Also, if participating in Christian holidays is the root of it, don't without understanding more (again this sounds like culture to me).
Hubby and I exchange Xmas gifts between us and with rest of my family, I cook nice meals on Xmas day and we listen to silly Christmas tunes, we also have Easter eggs, but we don't join in the drinking, have a Xmas tree and I don't cook turkey, don't attend church or sing hymns.
You need to find a balance which suits you and your convert hubby's side. Lots of Asian Muslims we know disagree with our balance, but as long as you're happy with it, don't worry about what rest of the family think..in fact one of my friends (Asian muslim) was literally stunned by her family for buying yule log and offering it to guests! This is nothing to do with Islam. The teachings and what is in your heart is far more important.

Good luck xx

Lostagain and defuse your accounts of childhood experiences of Islam made me smile. I think its very easy to look at a different religion/ culture and only see the good bits. Many mumsnetter have had negative experiences of christianity as children.

When I was a similar age my brother and I were sent to Sunday School. One week we were learning about the events of Holy week. My brother (aged 6) drew a picture of a man in an aeroplane and the Sunday School teacher asked who it was and my brother answered "Pontious Pilate". He got told off.

Later on I was forced to attend confirmation classes in my teens where a very elderly man went on about the different functions of men and women. It was so boring and like watching paint dry. Frankly this put me off christianity until I got to uni and shared a house with some christians. I realised that God was very different to how I was taught.

The classes my husband and children have been to are far better. I suppose its possible that mosques have moved on in the last 30 years as well. My son's first communion classes have included games and he has really enjoyed them. I imagine that the teaching of Islam has to evolve with the times as well.

Reallytired I'm having a chuckle because I always thought that pontious was a verb meaning pretentious to describe the pilot aswell, lol!

i always remember when I was about 4 in sunday school being told that in the easter play I was going to be the son of god, so I turned up the next week in a bright yellow outfit with a cardboard sun for my face, I understood it as the sun of god.

Anyway OP; I haven't read through all of the threads but I'm sure you can see from reading other peoples experiences that things have moved on (well, in most areas) and thankfully many people are realizing that what they thought is religion is actually culture.

Madmum

Absolutely I think a huge part is culture.

The mosque I went to as a child has not evolved at all! my father passed away last year and that particular mosque was chosen, well it was a dump, same carpets etc

I think I will try to teach my children a bit of Christianity and Islam and let them choose themselves. at the mo they know more about Christianity, so some catching up to do.....

reallytired,
You are right, a lot of mosques have moved on - in fact most have, but there are some still stuck in a time warp. Its not islam's teachings that need to evolve, but those people need to evolve who are stuck in a cultural time warp and they teach more culture than islam.

Don't get me wrong, i love my religion and there are many out there doing a great job of keeping it's message true. When i finally managed to make a clear distinction between religion and culture that's when i really wanted to follow islam's teachings.

Before then, it was just a case of when i was young i was told to do x,y,z, because it is 'good' to do so, therefore i would do it half-heartedly then eventually give up.

mustgettogym over the years i have slowly started getting acquainted with asians and yes you do find a lot of them stuck in the 1950s with attitudes to culture etc. but then you can, on the odd occasion come across someone who really understands the difference between culture and religion and that can really be refreshing too.

Crescent _ I think a problem is the high number of back-home marriages that are still happening, so we're never getting past the first generation.

Surely different groups of muslims could set up their own mosque, just like different groups of christians have their own churches. There is a huge variety within the church of england of different styles of worship.

I think that the tightening of immigration laws will make it harder to have a "back-home" marriage. Personally I would like first cousin marriage to be outlawed in the UK. There is lots of medical evidence that marrying first cousins can cause terrible disablities. However this is an issue that doesn't just affect muslims.

nailak - Sorry for late reply but RL is hectic atm. Re bizarre TV shows of Harun Yahya (aka Adnan Hodja) - basically, these are his ramblings on current affairs mixed with his strange musings about his souvenirs. For some reason, dolled up silicon women who look like cheap prostitutes appear with him on these shows. They read him news clippings & articles and ask his opinions, then nod as his wisdom is received.

1st link you posted:
Doll #1: We start our program, welcoming our "teacher" ("hodja", as in "Adnan Hodja", one of his aliases), the apple of our eyes (I kid you not. This is what the peroxide blond says)
Adnan Hodja: Yes, I'm welcome, everyone welcome. Mashallah, your "hodja" is... like... the fountain of money for the agency (what "agency"? your prostitution ring?)
Dolls #1,2,3,4:
AH: What's the news then today?
Doll #1 reads news of Turkish army's clash with Kurdish PKK rebels in the east of the country
AH: We need to enlighten eastern brothers regarding communism. From the radio, for example. And we can tell them about the invalidity of Darwinism & materialism. (what does that have to do with Kurds wanting more independence, you dingbat? and how exactly do you argue against communism by opposing materialism???)
Doll #1: Head of Religious Affairs says words of Said Ali Nursi should be framed and hung everywhere
AH: That's good. Mashallah. Bring our coffees, then. What, you are waiting for electricity to come back on? Nooooo! Without electricity, we should just sit under a blanket and shiver (you are filming a TV show, how can you not have electricity??? This is at about 2:45) Back in the days, we used to have gas stoves. We could make great coffee on them. In my childhood, we'd have tiny gas ovens with tiny lids, that were very useful, especially for this coffee business. What else is there?
Doll #1 reads an article about religious organisations supporting/influencing politics
AH: As I said before, the reason why religious rule failed in the past is because there was no ideological support from religious groups (gives examples of previous parties - Menderes, Demirel, etc) so when socialists forced their hand, they failed. We ruined the opposition such that they can't even talk about Darwinism & materialism anymore. You don't see news about Evolution in the papers (why would you, unless there is some new breakthrough - news, in other words?) because we destroyed their ideology. This is our success. We destroyed their way of thinking, which then died. So now our religious politicians have a free hand.

All this until 7:00 or so. I didn't watch any further, but you get the idea. A Botoxed weirdo ranting about current affairs, slurring his words (looks drugged, actually) and hookers with silicon body parts nodding in awe of his every word.

It makes me so sad that this stuff is on TV and that some might actually look up to this manipulative pervert in matters of religion and politics

Really tired I agree with what you said about the first cousin marriages which still go onto day, eventhough both sets of cousins are born in the uk, surley education must come into it somewhere.

Some just like to keep it within the family, which is why having different mosques for different types of Muslim would be a disaster, all have their own ways, class, culture etc

A mosque is supposed to be open to all and i would love to see more mosques (i have seen one or two wonderful ones) where women can confidently walk in and ask any question they like and get a true answer rather than a cultural answer. Islam truly empowers women and that is why you have more women converting in uk than men.

"Islam truly empowers women"

You people must be doing something different in the UK because that cannot be generalised to the experience of 800 mn Muslim girls/women in the world.

cote the experience of the 800 mn that you are referring to, probably have a huge dose of culture mixed with very little religion giving you an incredibly skewed view of islam and women's empowerment.

For example, forced marriages have nothing to do with islam, yet it does happen in cultures that 'follow' islam. In correct islamic terms, those women have full rights to come out of those marriages - as given to them by islam. Islam gave them the right not to be forced into marriages in the first place. You cannot mix social/cultural issues with the true teachings of islam.

Association does not mean causation.

So yes, islam truly empowers women.

I wasn't talking about forced marriages in particular but the general place of women in society.

I'd be interested to hear why you think Islam empowers women, though. Please don't say "We cover up head to toe and that's so liberating" as I've heard a few people say on here.