Catholics, what are your thoughts on this mornings Bishops letter?

[ImproperlyAcquainted]

The one from Vincent Nicholls and Peter Smith regarding marriage, specifically homosexual marriage.

I want to respond but after rambling on for 3 pages I'n not really sure of my point anymore.

Sorry for the above post, it make no sense .

I love the post about who are you angry with the vatican or God. I will remember that.

Some posts have said it is up to us to make a stance etc. How are you doing this? Just so as I can get some tips

Well done LividCatholic I would have walked out too (not in uK)

Agree with MitchyInge and

Pottering when she says "I believe that sanctity can be applied to anyone who loves."

That post was about my dreadful grammar, sorry! Damn slow posting phone.

livid I do admire what you did today. In a one on one I would discuss with my priest and would like the opportunity. It does seem that a response/view is not usually expected! And my current PP is a bit old school.

Right now I'm not sure if I am doing the right thing bringing DS up Catholic. I've been thinking about starting a thread on this for a while, DH has no faith so I'm on my own with this.

Perhaps I'll start a new one when I haven't had a drink...

Livid, We made the decision not to go to Mass today. I would like to think I would have walked out too and I would not want our children to listen to such bigotted ideas.

In my mind this amounts to a hate crime.

CelticPromise; Although our daughter attends a Catholic school our DS's willnot be doing so.

@Livid good on you. I was going to go to the evening mass and I heard about the letter and decided not to go. The letter itself isn't thaaat bad. But the undertones are just appalling and I am very very seriously considerign leaving the catholic church.

I was in tears about it last night. I feel like I am having a massive crisis.

I even went to the Quaker meeting house near work today as I have always felt something of a draw to them, but haven't seen the point of changing. I have a very strong catholic identity but I feel this is too much.

I feel like I survived the last pope, the beatifiaction of Mother Teresa, the current pope, the child abuse scandle, A BIOLOGY DEGREE [GRIN] etc so why do I feel this way now?

I think it is the fact that there is so much good in the Catholic laity but it is repeadedly ignored by the hierarchy, and they get themselves tied up over the semantics of a legal institution of which they are not part of rather than focusing on the BIGGER issues. Not a bloody word about Kony for example. Or the soldier in Afganistan. They just get het up about some non catholics saying htey love eachother somewhere else and I have been feeling teary all day.

There was no 'sermon', no bible reading, at mass on sunday. Priest talked about it and then read the letter in full. Everyone seemed to agree that it was the right thing to do and you could not get out the door, for the queues to sign the petition.
So a toally different re-action to the ones you all mention !!

Tardis, I never thought my Catholicism was all that important to me, I don't regularly go to Mass but when I had children, I decided I wanted them to be brought up in the Catholic faith. They are in Catholic school. I was surprised by my own reaction yesterday, I was so angry and upset that my church could be so bigoted in MY name! I felt a very strong sense of being Catholic, more so then I have ever felt and I really did feel ashamed of this part of my identity. I have now had a real crisis of faith in Catholicism, I too have felt teary at times over the last 24 hours and this has shocked me. I saw the headmistress of our school this morning and told her how I felt and what I had done. I told her that under no circumstances must my children be exposed to this message should it filter down into the Catholic schools. She assured me that they had had no directive and she wasn't expecting one. She also assured me that parents would always be consulted before anything of this sensitive nature was approached with the children. I spoke to ds1 last night about it ( he is nearly 10) I asked his opinion on gay marriage and he said "it's up to the people involved, man and man or woman and man or woman and woman, what difference does it make if they love each other?" I told him that if anyone told him he had to believe differently, that he should always have the courage to speak his mind.

Then shame on your congregation, Oblomov, if they are so narrow minded that they judge other human beings over something that has no bearing on them or their own lives.

The hierarchy of the Catholic Church would do well do shut up about all things to do with sex and marriage after the scandals that have engulfed it and have done real harm to many children.

We had a brilliant priest who used to refer to "christianity" and "churchianity". This letter is pure churchianity.

well said, amothersplace.

The problem I have is thta I have dismissed the views of the more bigotted ends of teh church and the 'churchianity' as you put it for a long time. I thought I always would be able to do this as well as it's not as though it has been easy to reconcile my attendance at mass with the actions of the catholic church over the past few years as I am sure you all know.

But this has touched a nerve. I don't see how I can marry in the catholic church following that letter that reduced the institution of marriage to genitals and babies.

I cohabit and always felt this was ok but today the pope has suggested they are about to come down hard on that and getting married in the catholic church may not be something I am able to do in future.

I feel very devalued as a member of the laity today.

"I feel very devalued as a member of the laity today."

Me too.

I went to mass today and I cried. I don't want to leave the church but I don't know if I can stay either. I had a meeting about 1st communion tonight and I felt like so much a part of a community and it was just lovely. We talked a lot about the failings of the church and how to reconcile faith and conscience. I don't know what to do. I have written to the Archbishop, the Bishop of Southwark and my own Bishop, joined a FB group 'Catholics for gay rights' and I have found a counter petition online

here

I also found this website queeringthechurch

Apparently, on Friday night, in gay clubs throughout the country a statement disagreeing with transubstantiation will be read out.

One thing I found odd was the natural definition of marriage. I would like to direct the archbishops to the Old Testement and ask what this definition is. Specifically if they would advocate a man buying two sisters in order to keep them as his wives.

Or whether they accept that the definition of marriage has changed, and that Christ loved and accepted everyone, had nothing to say on homosexuality and a lot to say on judging others instead of loving and helping them.

Why should marriage just be about procreation? DH and I have decided that we aren't having any more children... perhaps we should divorce? Hang on... if I were being a proper catholic I wouldn't be using contraception either would I? And I wouldn't be allowed to divorce him either.

This sort of thing is why I'm happy that I am no longer a Catholic.

Marriage is more of a legal status these days than a religious one. If the Catholic church, or any individuals within it, doesn't wish to condone gay marraige then that's their perogative however the legal standpoint is none of their concern (imo)

@Peetle, amusing but not very nice is it? A bit eye for an eye and all that...

I think it's an impressively tongue in cheek and restrained response.

I'm not Catholic but CofE.

What is upsetting me most about this whole issue is constantly reading on Twitter and in the media that 'Christians think...' or 'the religious think....' etc.

How DARE anyone presume to know what I think? How DARE they?

Other points.... as another poster has said, where exactly is marriage defined in the Bible? It is discussed often in the NT, but where is it defined? I have had this conversation in the past in relation to co-habiting couples, and I haven't had a satisfactory answer.

Also... it is just wrong to exclude people from the church for something that is beyond their control (ie their sexual orientation). How many times did Jesus criticise the Pharisees for their over-application of the law over the application of loving acceptance? I think the phrase he used was "blind fools".

AP You need to stand up and shout about it then. Because what's happening right now is that "church leaders" are speaking up and claiming to speak on behalf of all Christians. Every person who says that love and acceptance are more important to them as Christians makes that look a bit sillier.

(I am C of E but attend Catholic church due to marriage, but this is open to renegotiation after last Sunday)

I didn't go to mass on Sunday norty but I heard about the letter on the radio on Sunday morning. I would imagine that in my church it would have been received with a stony silence too. I believe that two people that love each other should have the right to be joined in matrimony.

MrsHoarder yes, I know I do. Where do I start? (serious question). There is the counterpetition upthread somewhere, but are there any other organised responses to the issue?

@aspirant @MrsHoarder This is one of the probs with the catholic church and the perception of it. It is not a demoncracy. People standing up and shouting will just be told they are wrong by the church. There is nothing anyone can do. Except consider leaving. But who left the UK over the Irq war, for example?
.

Can anyone post a link to the petition please. My dh wants to sign it tough I do not. He is a Catholic and I am not.

Though

The definition of marriage by the dictionary and the church is the union of one man and one woman . I just don't see why gay couples should have the right the change the definition of such an institution any more than for example polygamists should . That's not to say their partnerships and love are any less important/real . That's why civil partnerships were created . It gives them the same rights as hetero couples . And that's also not to say 3 people can't be in a loving relationship , but they can't get married either .