Hallelujah He is Here - Chataway

[DutchOma]

Well here you are then I don't post often, but just to save Nickel a job...

Hej Blåtingeling! Vi kan starta vår egen hemliga klubb nu!

Det låter bra Jag behöver lite mer övning! I have a Swedish Singstar disc at home but no one to battle against as DH doesn't speak Swedish. Will have to wait until my Dbro visits, he spent a few months in Sweden when he was at college!

I love the Blatingeling, but can't do the little o on top.

Oo, funny words...

I can cope with Christus Victor. I can also cope with the idea of God as loving Father AND Mother, who loves us so much that even when we get it wrong, the love is still there, unconditionally and unequivocally. We are after all, created in His image. :)

Maybe I should change my nickname

our team ministry has been approved and we're allowed to advertise for a new vicar now

it's in sittingbourne, kent if anyone's interested.
:)
we've got 2 churches the vicar will be in charge of, one HC, one traditional.
both have music as very important part of ministry (so would want someone who will respect and not interfere with that, but who can also help nurture it!)

nickel how exciting! :)

re wrath - it's not morally repugnant- there are loads of instances in the OT where God himself says he's an angry god, a jealous god, and will revenge.

so wrath is fine.

i do believe that, even if we had believed in jesus before his condemnation, that we would have mocked and shouted if we'd been in the crowd.
it sounds awful to believe, or to contemplate, but it would have been the truth.
it fulfilled the scriptures in every way, and that was one of them.
we might have regretted it and mourned after, but we would have done it. all of us.
it's human manifestation of sin.

Um, worded that one badly. I agree we'd have been in the crowd, we'd have been there by the charcoal fire saying 'no, I don't know him'. But forgiving isn't linked to punishment, or it shouldn't be. I don't say to my children I'll only forgive you once I have punished you (or better still, once someone else has taken your punishment for you). I forgive them freely, and their punishment (although I actually don't think of it in those terms) is separate from that. That's why I find PSA so hard to cope with -- I can't conceive of God being more vindictive than me.
But, yes, I bet he's wrathful a lot -- goodness me, when you see how we all behave. But I think he's more merciful and just and loving and forgiving than wrathful.

Exciting news, Nickel!

he is merciful, forgiving, just etc, but he is wrathful and vengeful.
He cast Adam and Eve out into the wilderness, he drowned the entire world apart from Noah and his family, he turned Lot's wife into salt, he sent 10 plagues onto Egypt, and he allowed his own son to be tortured and killed (and that one was premeditated - he had scriptures saying exactly what was going to happen!)
He does not like being disobeyed.

Think you believe in a different God from me.

Sorry for being AWOL!

The busyness of life kind of took over for a while there!

Interesting discussion around the wrath of God!
For me, God is love - ie God = love; love=God. There is no room for vengeance with love. There certainly are examples of God being alluded to as vengeful in the OT and I did start to think that maybe God changed with Christ as the new covenant. God is unchanging though and time doesn't really exist so this can't be right. I think I've concluded that sometimes the writers of the OT, saw the tragedies as being direct actions of God but actually they weren't. Even today, we often question why God is "doing something" when in actual fact, the God that is love chooses for us to find our own way and have free will and sometimes we can't explain or understand why this is. For example, why didn't God intervene in the Boxing Day tsunami or the NZ earthquakes or any other recent tragedy? Only He knows but I do still believe that we need to ask for His help in trusting him and coming to love more as He does.

Anyway, I've gone off on a tangent there as I've not mentioned "wrath". Wrath is another word for anger but usually associated with "anger with consequences". Anger is fine, it is not a sin and in fact I discovered a few years back that actually it is ok to be angry with God. We do need to think about how we channel that anger though -to try and bring a positive outcome. That is an appropriate wrathful action.

Don't know whether any of that makes sense as I've just typed as my thoughts have come to me

Sorry, this is my fault -- PSA is one of those subjects that is so divisive...

More cheerfully, the CD we use for 'Be Thou My Vision' is The Rend Collective -- their version is great, isn't it?

But I also really love . Oh, how I would love to have such singing in our church!

Hello niminy :) How we would all love such beautiful singing in our churches! I long for the day that everyone in our congregation sings with their heart and soul to God. I just have to accept though that the beauty of humanity as created by God is that we all have different preferences and that includes different preferences for worship.

Oh dear, I'm being a bit thoughtful today. I think I need to go off and do something a bit mundane like housework or something! I'm off work this week and have a day pottering at home today before we head off to visit the ILs in Ireland tomorrow evening :)

we could prob do that version

our choir was quite short last night, and there was quite a bit of cock-upping.
we console ourselves by the knowledge that God knows we tried.
we are hoping that God isn't that much of a meanie that only perfection of performance is acceptable

Hello nickel :) How are you and DD?

awight fanx!

dd is now full from the top and poring out from the bottom.
the farts this girl does are enviable!

*pouring out.

Hehe!!!

Right - which job shall I tackle first? Cleaning out the car, unloading the dishwasher or sorting out the washing???....

Typing on mobile so can't say much as it is being annoying slow. Want to write long essay on wrath but Will have to wait. Silks. At the is for couple of days. V interesting discussion! Am with you panda :-) hope you're all heaving. A great weekend.

Aaagh flaming. Autocorrect! That should be sulks , ils, and having ;-)

Haha.i honestly don't really hope you are all heaving ;-) !!

V interesting discussion on wrath - will try to collect my thoughts ont he subject. I don't think of God as vindictive but justified anger/wrath - certainly. Tim Keller explains well in his book "Prodigal God" (very highly recommended) - one of the ideas is that forgiveness is always at someones expense and it was because of God's extravagant (or prodigal) love for us that Jesus paid the price so that we don't have to face the judgement we deserve.

Am a big ST fan - HDTFLFU, ICA, OCA, HSLBOG, SOL, MHIFWT and lots of others :)