Really moved by reaction of faithful to the Pope.

[bamboostalks]

Realise that there is a huge amount of negativity and vitriol on here atm with regards to the Pope's visit. However mumsnet is for all and there are plenty of Catholics who are pleased to see him here. This is a thread to celebrate this. I was really moved at the reaction of people in Glasgow yesterday. It was so emotional to see the babies hepd up for his blessing, he really did radiate a serene presence. Love his message as well, it is time to be proud to be a Christian. Hope all those going to see him have a fantastic time.

I do agree with church teaching on homosexuality, but I feel uncomfortable spouting on about it as it is not a 'cross' that I have to bear. it's so easy for me to say 'a homosexual man needs to be celibate' but it's not something i have any idea about... the temptations etc... so I don't feel I can broadcast my beliefs about it comfortably.

I do not practise 'pick and mix' catholicism. I try as hard as I can to practise what I preach (eg. the only form of contaception I use is NFP). However I obviously cannot do this when it comes to homosexuality!!

It's pointless saying I'm going as I'm sure I'll be back!!

Yes, 1944girl. For all the talk of protests, I hardly saw a thing.

Thankfully.

I was speaking to someone who went to the vigil at Hyde Park and they said the atmosphere was completely amazing, apart from a group of protestors who were swearing and being very loud mouthed which was a bit upsetting as there were children there, ironic that they were protesting about child abuse

'this is what the catechism says: ''Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection''

this has been written SOLELY to address the fact that there are gay people in the church and in the clergy, and as a way of 'managing' gayness, ie, remaining celibate. If you replace the word homosexual with heterosexual you can see that it is simply a call to celibacy for the priesthood. Being celibate for the priesthood is a person's individual choice [though it often causes great problems] Being gay is as natural as being heterosexual and the kind of God that would forbid that is a seriously sadistic one.

ah well...empty vessels make the most noise & all that. some people just like the sound of their own voice....even though they're saying nothing.

The catechism doesn't say anything about the call to celibacy by homosexuals referring only to priestly celibacy among homosexual priests. The Church states that sexual relations must only take place within marriage and must also be capable of resulting in conception, all else being equal (i.e. no artificial contraception). So gay sex falls outside of what is sanctioned on both counts. Heterosexual persons are equally called to chastity, outside of marriage, and toeing the line within marriage too. According to the Church, God does not forbid anyone from being gay, just from homosexual acts, as are heterosexual acts outside of their church sanctioned place.

you look wonderfully homophobic, racist and bigoted dp, yes.

POFAKK;

Come here a minute....

Good post math, all harsh but true!

The Pope's visit cost UK taxpayers around 12m pounds - momey well spent IMO

Some people say Catholics shouldn't crow about the success of the visit - why ever not after all the anti-Catholic abuse on sites like MINUTE

The only losers in all this were the Dawkins-mob and those MNers whose criticism of Catholicism is so wide of the mark that it really fails to use reason to dialogue with faith in the way the Pope urged

"The Church states that sexual relations must only take place within marriage and must also be capable of resulting in conception"

What if you are infertile or post-menopausal?

That's fine Ramona as you are doing nothing to prevent a new life forming (as long as the infertility has not be caused deliberatley as a method of contraception).

I suppose alternative wording might be "The Church states that sexual relations must only take place within marriage and must also be open to the result of a new life forming."

But if you know you are infertile or post-menopausal or otherwise unable to conceive, then you are NOT open to the result of a new life forming, Freddo.

How do you explain that exactly?

I find the whole argument pretty revolting actually. Why should you feel entitled to an opinion about entirely private relationships between other people who have nothing to do with you?

Why don't you just mind your own business? (Let those without sin cast the first stone, etc)

I really do see so much hypocrisy in all this.

Funny how Jesus Christ didn't mention homosexuality once, it being such a terrible sin and everything.

I agree Dollius. My own view is that it's an extremely private thing and I talking about it does make me feel like a hypocrite. I suppose people are asking what the church teaches and this is what it teaches... I think it's very hard to discuss it one way or another in a non-hypocritical fashion unless you are homosexual yourself... But I struggle to see how you can ask me questions about what the church teaches about it in one sentence and then tell me to mind my own business in the next!

Sex between a man and a woman is 'sex' in the strictest sense - it is physically impossible for a gay couple to have sex in the strictest sense of the word. Foreplay and similar without actual sex is a sin according to the church, so therefore any such actions by a gay couple are unfortunately not permissable by the church. Sex between an infertile couple is still 'sex' and has oon ocassion resulted in conception even when it was thought to be impossible.

As I mentioned before the church views it as no more ''terrible a sin'' than sex between a married couple using contraception. As I said before, we all (me definitely included) do things that the church considers wrong. I am not casting stones, just tryig to describe what the church teaches...

Yes PO, that was something that David Cameron said that really resonated with me, 30,000 charities in UK have a Christian basis. Something to take pride in, I think.

To be honest I am perfectly and completely happy not to discuss homosexuality and to 'mind my own business'! As far as I'm concerned if anyone out there is homosexual and has a problem with church teaching on it their best option would be to discuss it with a priest if that is what they wish to do. That will be my stance on here in future...

Just imagine for a moment it was homesexuality that was the norm, and that bore children, etc. Imagine that your sexual preference , heterosexality, was deemed to be wrong. That is you wanted to be catholic, you would have to deny every sexual and loving urge in yourself towards men. You would be unable to be married. You would be unable to have boyfriends. You would have to deny yourself completely. How would you feel? Tormented? Miserable? I think so. For life. And yet that is what the Catholic church demands of gay people. It is so abhorrently wrong and the Christ that we learn about from the scriptures would be so against enforcing that kind of torture and judgement on any body. It is sickening.

And yet you ally yourself to a religion that does think it is acceptable to preach about how other people express love towards one another, Freddo?
I'm sorry, but I cannot understand that.

I'm grateful to you Freddo. I've spent too much time over the past 4 years worrying about whether I could or should return to the Church. I think your posts have finally convinced me that the answer is a definite no.

My uncle and his partner of over 20years are gay and Catholic. They have discussed this with their priests down the years have never, not one time ever had a problem. The Catholic church changes slowly, but it does change. FWIW the Redemptorist magazine recently carried an article about being a gay Catholic and they believe that soon science will prove that homosexuality is not a choice and therefore the church will have to change its official stance. In the meantime gays are welcome at mass.

All religions preach.

If you join one, you are a member of an organisation whose whole raison d'etre is to tell what it considers to be the truth.

As far as self-denial goes, heterosexual Catholics are supposed to avoid going about committing sin too. The Catholic Church makes quite a few demands, but above all else, the Catholic Church states that you have been endowed by your creator with free will and your own individual conscience. It's ultimately up to you what you do.