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Really moved by reaction of faithful to the Pope.

443 replies

bamboostalks · 17/09/2010 08:29

Realise that there is a huge amount of negativity and vitriol on here atm with regards to the Pope's visit. However mumsnet is for all and there are plenty of Catholics who are pleased to see him here. This is a thread to celebrate this. I was really moved at the reaction of people in Glasgow yesterday. It was so emotional to see the babies hepd up for his blessing, he really did radiate a serene presence. Love his message as well, it is time to be proud to be a Christian. Hope all those going to see him have a fantastic time.

OP posts:
Aitch · 20/09/2010 16:44

it was my recollection that this was an official thing, i definitely recall mumsnet.com user names on your threads, but if not, it was very much the feeling of the mners who had had to listen to your homophobia and racism and anti-disabled views that you should give it a rest. it's a bit sickening to see you pronounce on matters of the church and to proclaim your faith, given that you have so often used it to back up your revolting views. you will be picked up on this, dp, you will reap as you have sown.

bamboostalks · 20/09/2010 16:46

There is a programme tonight on BBC2 at 7pm about the whole visit. Hopefully it will focus on where the church goes from here.

OP posts:
daftpunk · 20/09/2010 16:48

It wasn't an official thing. MNHQ came on one thread and confirmed that I was on a final warning...can't remember which thread??

POFAKKEDDthechair · 20/09/2010 16:51

not an official thing but on a final warning. From MNHQ. Oh dear.

Aitch · 20/09/2010 16:51

okay fine, once again this is all about you, enough. i appreciate that i am complicit, having forgotten my own personal promise not to engage with you directly. let them have their thread, dp.

daftpunk · 20/09/2010 16:55

It's only all about me aitch because you make that happen....can't you see that?

FreddoBaggyMac · 20/09/2010 16:56

Aitch, I was not 'bleating' about you not answering. I would have much rather you'd said at the time 'Yes, I know all that' and keep on the subject, rather than pick out a comment from what I'd said and use it for some complete other purpose. Someone did actually ask if the Pope thought homsexuals were evil and I gave my genuine considered response to that. You took what I'd said and turned it into another attack on DP. I asked a few posts later if you found what I said to be homophobic and you didn't respond. Then you go on to call something that I have thought about irritatingly pat and mealy-mouthed - can you not see how I am just a bit insulted by that?

All I can say to you is that my posting this morning was completely genuine and from my heart what I believe. I think I stated my opinions in a direct and honest way, at least that is what I tried to do.

Aitch · 20/09/2010 16:56

"i appreciate that i am complicit, having forgotten my own personal promise not to engage with you directly."

POFAKKEDDthechair · 20/09/2010 16:57

Bamboostalks CAFOD is indeed a very good agency. However it is criticized heavily in Catholic circles for promoting, or at least not criticizing, the use of condoms in countries where HIV is prominent.

here

FreddoBaggyMac · 20/09/2010 16:59

Bamboostalks, thanks, will watch that. Hopefully it will improve my mood somewhat from what this thread has reduced it to Sad

daftpunk · 20/09/2010 17:00

You forgot it big-time ..you've been talking to me pretty much non-stop for 3 days...

Must be my charm...

Aitch · 20/09/2010 17:01

well freddo i didn't want to respond really because i didn't want to get into it with you but since you ask, of course i find your position homophobic, patronisingly so. i find the church's position on homosexuality utterly and wholly homophobic, albeit politely homophobic. god should make people homosexual but not let them express their love for each other in a physical way? why? just so that they can recruit more priests?

bamboostalks · 20/09/2010 17:01

Catholic Agency UK is far less representative of 'Catholic circles' than CAFOD is. Being heavily criticised by them is not something that most Catholics would worry about.

OP posts:
POFAKKEDDthechair · 20/09/2010 17:04

I can't speak for most Catholics. I know some liberal ones and some not so, same with Anglican ones [evangelical ones awful] But agree CAFOD does very good work, as does Christian Aid and other Christian agencies.

FreddoBaggyMac · 20/09/2010 17:07

Why did you not want to get into it with me? Fair enough if that is what you think. I do not agree but I have made my thoughts on it clear enough already.

Aitch · 20/09/2010 17:08

because you seem like a nice, sincere person, that's why, and i didn't want to get into it with you for that reason. is that okay with you?

Aitch · 20/09/2010 17:10

although now that we are on the subject, i would be interested to know why god has created homosexuals. it was news to me that the catechism says that people are born gay, but seeing as it does, i take it there is an answer to that question.

FreddoBaggyMac · 20/09/2010 17:13

I would have much rather have talked about it than DP and the national front Aitch... I will take what you have said as a peace offering and hope you are not being sarcastic! Now really have to go and be a mother, nothing makes me neglect my children like mumsnet does...

Aitch · 20/09/2010 17:16

well it's hardly up to me to guess at what you'd rather discuss and proceed from there... i didn't want to discuss it with you at that moment. i wanted an answer to the question of dp's hypocrisy, but i should have known better than to hope to get one.

i'm confused by your recent posts, freddo, you seem to be taking everything that has happened on the thread very personally.

daftpunk · 20/09/2010 17:18

Do you want me to answer the question?

The one about people being born gay...

mathanxiety · 20/09/2010 17:18

PO, your quote above was about homosexual acts, not homosexuals themselves.

'Homosexual desires, however, are not in themselves sinful. People are subject to a wide variety of sinful desires over which they have little direct control, but these do not become sinful until a person acts upon them, either by acting out the desire or by encouraging the desire and deliberately engaging in fantasies about acting it out. People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner.'

And 'However, the Church also acknowledges that "[homosexuality?s] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. . . . The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God?s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord?s cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.'

From the same site... 'Paul comfortingly reminds us, "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it" (1 Cor. 10:13).'

Maybe cold comfort, maybe a very tall order. But the Catholic Church doesn't say homosexuality itself is evil, or that homosexual acts are more of a problem than heterosexual acts that are outside of what the Church sanctions.

FreddoBaggyMac · 20/09/2010 17:28

this is what the catechism says: ''Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection''
Very harsh and hard to take I completely agree. My hope is that the church might relax their rules in this regard in the future, although as I said before it's hard to see how they could do that without changing their entire rules about sex and marriage.
The Church would say that homsexuality is a 'cross to bear' - again very hard to take.

As I said in my (mealy-mouthed Smile) post, my belief is any action borne out of genuine unselfish love is not wrong in the eyes of God, and it is up to the individual to decide for themself whether what they are doing is out of unselfish love.

I doubt you'll agree with this but that's how it is. It's the area of church teaching I have the most difficulty with by far.

Anyway, now I really must go and get the baby bathed...

FreddoBaggyMac · 20/09/2010 17:30

sorry, Aitch, just had some depressing news from elsewhere and was feeling down for other reasons as well. My fighting spirit is returning but unfortunately will only be able to use it to bath the baby with as I really have to go Wink

Aitch · 20/09/2010 17:35

you see, it's that type of pick and mix catholicism that i have difficulty with. the church is wrong wrt homosexuals, and by not confronting that it allows homophobia flourish.
the church is at least consistent about everything from abortion to contraception to homosexuality, however, as i said on one of my first posts here one cannot deny the logic of it all. the logic of ditching the bits you don't like as a worshipper is a bit more troublesome for me.

Aitch · 20/09/2010 17:35

x-posts. hope the depressing news was only a temporary situation and nothign ongoing. Smile