Puppy got sworn at and kicked by a jogger today...

[notimefortv]

she is only little and looks like a teddy bear - Bichon and toy poodle cross - can't even reach your knees if she jumps up.

Walking in woods with a friends and her lab x puppy and 5 children under 5 with us (2 in a buggy and 3 running around). Going a long a path and a jogger is running up - he shakes his head as he passes us as the pups have shown some interest in him - they come back to us but go back up to him when he is further away - he then stops and screams at mine to F Off but she sniffs a bit more so he boots her in the stomach. I couldn't believe it - most people at least give me the chance to say I'm sorry and am training her etc.

He was too far away to say antyhing although some other walkers shouted at him but then off he ran.

Please tell me that I will be more traumatised than the dog? Was in a wood with loads of dog walkers so can't believe it doesn't happen to him all the time.

Had just taken her off the trainng line but quickly put it back on - now need to re-gain my faith in mankind.

Maybe, and I've said this before about dogs jumping up, some people just don't want their clothes ripped/covered in mud. It doesn't just have to be the threat of being bitten or that they're scared that winds people up.

No, I personally wouldn't kick animals, unless in self defence. But when it happens again and again when you're out minding your own business, I can see why other people might. And I know some sports clothing is v expensive.

You're spot on, OP.

Like I said, some people just feel better after giving someone else a kicking, verbal or otherwise.

In that respect dogs are better than humans - they do not hurt for pleasure.

this situation

I think what the OP experienced was wrong - poor puppy.

However (there's always a however, isn't there) ....

There are other people here talking about "still working on recall" and things like that in much older/larger puppies.

I've talked on MN a couple of times about my now 8yo ds being bitten so badly by a border collie that came out of nowhere that he ended up in hospital with multiple stitches and is still scarred on his neck and shoulder. Due to this he is dog phobic (unsurprisingly) and we have worked very very hard to get him used to dogs (mainly so we don't have him freezing, hyperventilating and then screaming in the street when he sees one).

But last week once again we were in a public park with no dogs around that we could see where out of nowhere a bouncy black and white border collie bounces up out of nowhere and starts bouncing around us, barking, licking, slabbering etc ......

Ds froze solid, we had to try to find him something to help him breathe (into dh's hands in then end) and by the time the owner strolled over ds was hysterical and screeching about the dog.

Owner said "oh, stop crying, she won't hurt you, she's just a pup, we're still working on recall, she's only 1 ......."

I opened ds's coat and showed the owner the scar, explained where it came from!!

And all I got was "well, my dog would never do that, she doesn't even jump up (oh no?) is just a bit high-spirited, she's only a pup ...."

Not even a sorry.

A dog that is going to jump up on children should not be off the lead where children might be around, and a public park (with "all dogs on leads" signs, interestingly, and we go there for that reason), is not the place to let a "untrained to recall" dog of any ago off the lead.

Notimefortv, come over to my recall thread and talk whistles and smelly treats.

ooh This is interesting
My perspective is that I have a great big dog who is very sweet and placid and has been taught since tiny that he never chases joggers, bikes or children and he MUST come to heel instantly.
and I have a DH who jogs and gets jumped on by dogs not being controlled properly. He has very poor vision when he tries to look down from a rugby injury and small dogs especially alarm him as he worries he will fall having not seen them.
and DS2 is terrified of dog most especially small ones.
Dh was bitten by a really small one and had three hours at the hospital waiting for a tetnus.

Given all that mixed background you probably would think I have a view..
[meh]

I also hit the dog that bit my ds, hard, twice.

I've had dog lovers say I shouldn't have, but how on earth else was I going to get the beast off my 3yo?

Weegiemum, sorry for what happened to your DS, it must have been awful. When I'm talking about recall training for my older pup, I'm clinging on for dear life at the end of a 30 feet long lead, prancing around whistling like an idiot waving smelly bits of salami. Definitely a public place is not the place to be doing it. I'd like to think all dog owners would agree with that.

I like getting mud on my running trousers. It proves I've been doing serious running!

Coldtits, just returned to this thread and saw you pulled out a quote from my post ( "You'd think someone who hated dogs might choose to go running somewhere else in the acres of green space available - but I presume he must in some way enjoy venting..." by exexpat.) to back up what you said about dog owners expecting all green space to be for their own use.

If you read my whole post, you would see I was talking about a specific stretch of path which forms a very small patch of the Downs (an enormous green space in the centre of Bristol), and which as I said is the main dog-walking area in this green space. There are several dog-waste bins along that stretch, so most responsible dog owners choose to walk their dogs there, rather than on other parts of the Downs where there are no dog-waste bins. So, not surprisingly, at pretty much any hour between dawn and dusk you are guaranteed to find at least one dog along that stretch.

As I said, anyone who hated dogs has the option of running anywhere else in this very large area of green space, but this particular dog-hating runner I was talking about seemed to be making a point of running (on more than one occasion, so he must have been aware) in the most dog-infested area, and taking his anger out on any dog in the vicinity, when they were within a few metres, even if they weren't actually coming up to him.

I don't believe that dogs should take priority over all other users of green space. I expect to share public space with walkers, runners, children, dog-walkers, cyclists, horse-riders and everyone else.

Some places I go walking (with the dog and/or the DCs) are also popular with mountain-bikers. If I have the option of two paths, one of which is regularly used by bikers and one which is not, I choose the one which is not, so that I don't have to leap out of the way when a posse of bikers comes past, and don't have to wade through the mud they churn up. If I had a phobia of dogs, I think I would be sensible enough to make similar choices when it came to routes more or less popular with dog walkers.

I believe in common sense and tolerance, as I would hope do most dog-walkers and most runners, but unfortunately there are exceptions among all groups, and I would say that the runner I was talking about, and the one who kicked the OP's dog, are among those exceptions. And yes, there are also some pig-headed dog owners who let their dogs behave badly and don't care about affecting other people, but from what the OP said, I don't think she is one.

I have to say, I'm really surprised (and a bit horrified) how many of you think it is understandable that someone should kick a dog. fair enough (maybe) if the dog was snarling/ growling/ teeth bared and you felt personally threatened, I could maybe understand it. But this guy doesn't sound as if he was frightened- he sounds as if he was angry and aggressive, to the point where HIS behaviour in snarling and swearing at the OP was more intimidating to the OP than her dog's behaviour was to him- presumably that gives the OP the right to punch him in the face, as she may (quite reasonably) feel threatened by angry, aggressive men? Oh yeah- that would be assault, wouldn't it?

Two things I would bet my life on- one is that had this been an 8 stone rottie, Mr Angry would NOT have been so quick to kick it (despite the fact it would probably appear more threatening than a fluffy puppy) And secondly, I bet if the OP had been a MAN walking the pup, he similarly would not have dared to kick the pup. Anyone who would kick a little puppy like that is, to me, a complete bully. There's no excuse for animal cruelty, especially in an instance such as this. I would no doubt lash out at a dog which was attacking my kids (or even my dogs, which has happened) but you can't just lash out at ANY dog that comes near you, just in case it might attack you. That's like saying that it's understandable to headbutt any young unsavoury male who comes within a 2m radius of you just in case he might mug you!

I have 2 beagles- 1 of which is never off the lead, the other one who is, but has decidedly dodgy recall (typical hound- gets her nose down and goes deaf) She rarely annoys people, as we walk in woods where there only seem to be dog-walkers. She will run up to other dog-walkers (especially the ones who insist on giving her biscuits every time they see her) and I apologise. I can't imagine anyone kicking her just for being there! But then maybe I just live near nicer people...

He didn't swear at the OP - she was too far away and he had TWO DOGS CHASING HIM at a distance from their owners that they can't speak to him i.e. quite a fair way, I would imagine

Why is this thread so busy?

Is school back today or somthing?

weegiemum, so sorry to hear about your ds

A lack of apology from the dog owner is remarkable given your explanation (and is completely bad form anyway regardless of who the dog was jumping up at).

Did you point out it was a dogs on lead only area? I would have been furious too.

MP - it ok then to swear really loudly and agressively with kids listening as long as it's not at us then, eh?

ESE - I didn't point out about the dogs on leads sign

I've done it so often and people get so defensive - "but my friendly lolloping/small and harmless/well trained dof wouldn't do that. And I just wasn't up for it.

Wynken - hey you can do that in a public place if I can come and watch and your dog doesn't mind my (totally fearless of all animals) dd2 competing for the salami!

Dogs do not 'frequently' rip the throats out of children!

weegie, you sound very restrained given the circumstances. It's owners like that that do my head in and give such a bad impression of dog owners in general.

I'm hoping that when my puppy arrives I won't be blinded by her utter gorgeousness and fall into the asssumption that everyone will instantly adore her

I too would like a ring side seat for watching Wynken and her salami antics. There is a lady on youtube somewhere who is throwing sausages around in her garden to train her dog to stay. v impressive it is. Not sure I would have the restaint that dog has.

how awful!! even if your dog was sniffingthe jogger, in what way is a tiny little pup posing a threat to a person who is likely about 20-30 times larger than the animal??

i dont own a dog and would never go out of muy way to own one but i would NEVER kick a fully grown dog for sniffing at me, never mind a little pup!!

i am shocked that people on here think that is a reasonable course of action!

i have been bitten twice by different dogs (on different occaisions obv) and i blame those particular dogs and their owners NOT the fault of other dog owners and their dogs i see while walking. just because i have been unfortunate enough to come across more than one viscious dog does not mean that all dogs are the same!!

violence against animals is not acceptable in any form!

Hmmm now I'm in a quandry, when I take my beautiful 5 month old Papillon puppy (about 3kg I'd guess)to collect the children from school am I allowed to drop kick those pesky toddlers who insist on mauling him, trying to pick him up and standing on him? I suppose I could ask their owners to put them on a lead until they master perfect recall and obedience.

Don't forget to swear whilst doing it, alienbump

Forgot that nice little touch - but I already do that under my breath. Problem is, he is a complete toddler magnet, looking like I made him in "build a bear" as he does. Unfortunately he's not quite as robust as the stuffed variety and it is a genuine worry that smaller children are going to injure him one day.

Ooooh, even better, jog to the school. That way you'll be exempt from criticism