Labour’s plans for VAT on Private Schools

[Busydadof2]

The Labour Party has proposed introduction of VAT on private schools.

In the scheme of things the money they will bring in from this is tiny compared with total expenditure on state schools, while it will drive more burden on the state system as some parents leave private schools. I think this is a populist ploy to get traditional Labour voters to vote for what is in any other sense a centrist party.

Have you considered signing this petition to make sure the policy gets scrutinised and the weight of public sentiment against it is known?

Change.org petition: Stop Labour from adding 20% VAT to private school fees and forcing kids to change schools

www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-20-vat-to-private-school-fees-and-forcing-kids-to-change-schools

Various perspectives from the signatories of this vote come to mind and resonate with our own situation, including this: “I work in a state school with over 30 in a class and oversubscribed. My 2 kids went or go to private schools and we have sacrificed loads to do this. We are NOT wealthy, many of the kids at the school I work at live in bigger houses and have much more disposable income than we do. We chose to send our kids to private school rather than live in a bigger house instead of our semi detached on a main road. We holiday in the UK every year and I work full time. I buy my clothes on the high street or in charity shops. Many parents at the school my kids attend are in exactly the same situation. I agree there are some very wealthy parents there too and the addition of VAT will not even make an impact on them, they will pay it without batting an eyelid. All this will do is push the kids like ours back into an already oversubscribed state system, increase class sizes even more and create a bigger divide as private education will become truly elitist.”

Precisely. That is what I was trying to say @lavenderlou but you did so much more eloquently.

Read and learn @MisterChips. Your bubble and echo chamber are doing your cause no favours at all.

"How dare you imply that I have chosen two weeks on a French campsite ahead of my SEN daughter's education. "

I didn't.

I really, really, just am glad you have a nice holiday. And I really, really, worry that this education tax will make your challenges worse, not better, because that's what the data points to. And I really, really, wish you and your daughter all the best.

And I've never indicated that independent school families care about their kids education more than you, or anyone else.

And none of the above escapes the truth: in paying for independent school, parents already pay a heap of (extra) tax and save the taxpayer £8-12k per child. The truth is, the state system you use and work in would be royally screwed if it wasn't for the independent system saving it £4-6bn.

@HelsinkiSummer and @lavenderlou you both seem to seek out ways to be offended when no offence is intended. Sounds exhausting to me.

Your posts are pretty offensive by anyone's standards.Conversely, all that aggression sounds quite exhausting. Although to be fair, being a fangirl, even more so.

You seem to take great pleasure in screaming on the internet at a group for the financial choices they have made - or is it simply that you resent the idea that anyone has choices that you don’t? - so I suspect you’ll stick around and nitpick individual comments rather than engage in a substantive debate. I would suggest, though, that before you give lessons on ‘tone’ you might want to examine your own.

Not really interested in a petty fight with you - sorry if you are so mightily offended or find it ‘aggressive’ to challenge your shrill tone.

I am happy to resume a discussion with you if you have anything substantive to say, but not going to respond to your continued personal attacks.

And yet it continues with insults. Is "shrill" really the best you can do? Can I remind you that it was you who jumped into my exchange with another poster. I have no desire to have any discussion with you unless you have something to say on the topic that hasn't been said a gazillion times before on these threads, which I highly doubt.

Apologies for distracting you from raging at another poster, though for someone who keeps saying there is nothing more to be said on the topic you are adding quite the volume of posts.

I personally don’t think this is done and dusted. Labour have backtracked and softened their stance on this in a number of ways already, and we haven’t even seen a full analysis (nor the detail of what is being proposed). They may move forward with some nominal version so that they can claim to have met their manifesto promise, but ultimately I think they have to be sensitive to potential negative impacts across both sectors. I also expect legal challenges depending on the exact details.

I can add as many posts as I wish and you won't close me down.

I think anyone with a bit of distance from it would say that it is pretty much done and dusted as a policy. Starmer has made too much of it to back pedal at this stage. Whatever it achieves or doesn't achieve in revenue, it is catnip to the Left.

I am a little left of centre and am not at all convinced by the VAT policy. I would rather pay more income tax if it would sort out the state sector. However, if the state sector were 'sorted' you would also be likely see a percentage migrating to state from private, so even that policy would be asymmetrical in how it impacts both sectors. Starmer's hands are tied on that however as many top tier taxpayers would see it as a negative and Sunak & Co would have a field day. Hence it will be VAT.

No need to be defensive - not trying to ‘close you down’, just amused at your insistence there is nothing to be said while saying an awfully lot!

not sure how this can be ‘done and dusted’ when Labour haven’t even announced (figured out?) the details, and there seems to be confusion amongst themselves as to what would be included / exempt. They also seem to be backtracking on timelines as they realise the complexity and the potential for it to be highly destabilising in some areas.

some elements of the party would be quite happy to destroy the private sector, but I think starmer sees the need for a centrist platform and understands that driving loads of schools to closure is not a good look, especially if state schools don’t improve (and some specific LA might see worsening situation) as a result.

Has anyone estimated roughly how many schools may close, and how many parents may stop sending their children to private schools and send them to state schools instead?
(I saw reports that more private schools have opened over the past year but haven't been following this debate too closely as it seemed to be very repetitive and in particular I found the cries of 'politics of envy' and 'private school parents sacrifice so much and work so hard' very tedious.)

I think the story of UK private schooling is similar to universities in that there has been an expansion in the international student population while the locally born population has stayed stable or declined, especially in high status courses and institutions. It is likely that this population will expand further to fill the gaps. Although UK private schooling is very expensive it is still cheap compared to Switzerland and other English speaking countries like the US and Australia don't compete much in this market as far as I know. I can't reference evidence but that is the impression I have reading about this.

I read somewhere recently that the wage gap between UK and other G7 countries has significantly increased, we are significantly worse off compared to others. So yes, it will likely remain affordable for internationals and expats (and British education is still renowned) but out of reach for even relatively wealthy locals

@Whatevers that will work to a point for boarding schools. Day schools and primary schools will not be able to supplement with international students, and I would guess are more vulnerable, especially if not the very top tier selective.

@quantmum I would be interested to know what kinds of private schools are opening in the current environment- in our area the only new privates are specialist send schools which have the vast majority of their students funded by the state. That’s a whole other can of worms when it comes to VAT.

as for estimating impact in terms of school closures and student migration it is incredibly difficult to estimate. You can look at historical willingness of parents to absorb a similar fee increase over time (which is not really the same thing, but suggests low levels of impact), look at other countries that have implemented a similar policy (Greece, much higher levels of migration and significant school closures), or parent / school surveys of expectations (produce highest estimates of disruption). You get estimates ranging from 3% to north of 40% leaving private - the extremes of either end almost certainly being wrong, but still leaves a great deal of uncertainty. Especially so when you consider that a few small % either way changes the calculation from a money earner to a net drain on the state.

Or maybe I would lobby for state school parents to contribute towards improving their own children’s education rather than relying on others to pay up more while reducing the quality of the education they are actually paying for!! Means test state education families and those who can afford to contribute something to their own children’s education should do just that if they want to see an improvement.

Thank you, I presumed it was tricky to estimate as the details of the VAT are still unclear but there are so many posts mentioning 'data' and so on, that I thought people who are more focussed on this might have a firm idea.

The articles I read referred to this ISC report https://www.isc.co.uk/media/uukn4r3i/isc_census_2024_15may24.pdf

As state education is enshrined as a right and not an optional service, it's unlikely that means testing would be introduced.

That’s the point -people like you can afford it but have a CHOICE of going state or private ,my child has SEN and I need to save for few years and hope that I can do it because come secondary school he will not be able to cope in state and will not have a choice -it will be either NO EDUCATION or private school as he does not fit SEN school profile and will not be able to cope in secondary state school either ..but yeah -why bother is nt it ?people like me who can’t afford it but will sacrifice lots through years will need to pay increased VAT for kids of people like you who actually can afford private schools but also have a choice which my child does not have ..

It’s been done in many other countries and also similarly with early years care here in the UK. So absolutely it is doable…. Just not preferred as most much prefer ‘those other’ people forking out the extra money rather than themselves!!

Its not just SEN students. You also need to factor in armed forces children. Our local private school 40% of the boarders are children whose parents are in the armed forces.

The Labour party 'VAT on Private Schools' gimmick is just that, a gimmick. Who do you think pays for the childrens schooling, .... the government, so taking from Peter to pay Paul. The £1.6bn is a fallacy.

If its enshrined as a right, an incoming Labour Gov, could face a massive class action lawsuit from all those parents with children in private education unable to get their children into a local state school because of a lack of places.

There’s always loads of places
in inadequate schools though.

So I’m sure there’s no need to worry about lack of places.

There’s always loads of places
in inadequate schools though.

Your smugness at the thought is clearly evident! People would rather leave the country (and take their 5 or 6 figure income taxes with them!!) so see how much better off the country is when those who contribute the most taxes head off elsewhere. And it’s not because they cannot cough up an extra 20% on the school fees, it’s because they don’t want to! Labour is showing us very clearly that this will not be a country for those with aspiration and ambition and it will very soon be time to leave!

It’s showing the opposite.

I’m just saying it as it is. Theres always spare capacity in crap schools. So there will be no reason to sue the government.

l’m sure they don’t really care if you leave the country.

But that's where you are wrong and clearly lack an understanding of the issue at hand. Kent / Hertfordshire / Oxfordshire / Essex have already advised parents not to move students from private schools to state schools because they lack spaces to accomodate them (they are already struggling to provide school places for students not in private education, even before the possible influx of privately educated students). Even in some London Boroughs the same message is being communicated to parents ' don't move your kids we don't have the places.'

The most equitable solution would be for Labour MP's to give up their children's school place until everyone else has been accommodated, then take whats 'left'.

Where are they suggesting that people who can no longer afford private school go? The whole situation is ludicrous. If a parent has to withdraw the child from private, are the children just supposed to stay at home and not be educated anywhere?