Labour’s plans for VAT on Private Schools

[Busydadof2]

The Labour Party has proposed introduction of VAT on private schools.

In the scheme of things the money they will bring in from this is tiny compared with total expenditure on state schools, while it will drive more burden on the state system as some parents leave private schools. I think this is a populist ploy to get traditional Labour voters to vote for what is in any other sense a centrist party.

Have you considered signing this petition to make sure the policy gets scrutinised and the weight of public sentiment against it is known?

Change.org petition: Stop Labour from adding 20% VAT to private school fees and forcing kids to change schools

www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-20-vat-to-private-school-fees-and-forcing-kids-to-change-schools

Various perspectives from the signatories of this vote come to mind and resonate with our own situation, including this: “I work in a state school with over 30 in a class and oversubscribed. My 2 kids went or go to private schools and we have sacrificed loads to do this. We are NOT wealthy, many of the kids at the school I work at live in bigger houses and have much more disposable income than we do. We chose to send our kids to private school rather than live in a bigger house instead of our semi detached on a main road. We holiday in the UK every year and I work full time. I buy my clothes on the high street or in charity shops. Many parents at the school my kids attend are in exactly the same situation. I agree there are some very wealthy parents there too and the addition of VAT will not even make an impact on them, they will pay it without batting an eyelid. All this will do is push the kids like ours back into an already oversubscribed state system, increase class sizes even more and create a bigger divide as private education will become truly elitist.”

Exactly!!! Thank you!! If state education is in need of more funding, start means testing the parents who actually use it! Families earning over a certain amount make a termly or yearly contribution - the government would raise a hell of a lot more funds that way rather than (very vindictively!) going after private school parents who don’t even use state education in the first place!

I didn't say that the poster couldn't see it. I said that was not what her post was about. Big difference. It is arrogant to assume that she will be interested in hearing you push your agenda.

I suspect you don't even know when your comments are patronising. If this isn't patronising then I really don't know what is. You are also implying she has a choice regarding education when she has clearly said that she hasn't and you are saying her perspective of what is wealthy is not valid. Again, arrogant.

I'm sympathetic and not criticising your choices at all, but there are people paying for private school who don't have a holiday budget. It's simply not true that if you privately fund education you are "wealthy".

The issue you is that you and people like you are living in a great big fat bubble and have no clue what life is like for most of the people in this country. If you did, you would not be saying many of the things you say.

there is a VERY big difference between paying private school fees and a termly contribution of a few hundred pounds that can be scaled according to household income! Why shouldn’t a family with a household income of over say £100k not contribute something towards the full time education of their own children if the school that they use has a funding need?

They are paying for schooling through their high taxes, particularly if they are in a very high income tax bracket. If others on similar incomes choose to opt out of the state provision that is their choice. Use it or lose it. I believe that higher rate income taxes should be increased across the board to help fund the gap.

Take 2 families

Family 1. Annual household income equivalent to two parents earning an average wage (25% of families at private school fall into this category according to the IFS). The taxpayer is not paying a penny to educate their child.

Family 2. Annual household income of, say, £500k a year and uses the state system at a cost to the taxpayer of £8k a year.

The state system needs more funding apparently. Why should family 1 be the ones expected to pay for this? It’s more logical to tax family 2 to raise revenue.

Then they should do that! Increase higher rate taxes across the board, but penalising those who don’t even use the state education system in the first place reeks of vindictiveness and will only cause division and stifle any hopes of aspiration among the younger generations.

They are paying for schooling through their high taxes, particularly if they are in a very high income tax bracket.

• And if they were using independent school they'd be contributing even more.
• And if they had to earn more money to pay for independent school, they'd be paying a stackload more, total benefit to taxpayer of ~£30k.

You are also implying she has a choice regarding education

I didn't. I don't think it's relevant that she doesn't have a choice. What's relevant is her situation is tough, and by taxing education and forcing more children with SEN into her situation, you're supporting a policy that makes it even tougher.

I'd be fine with higher taxes across the board. No vindictiveness here.

The bubble again! It's very relevant that she doesn't have a choice. That was her whole point. She is an awful situation and she doesn't have any choice about it. You minimise that by saying it's irrelevant she doesn't have a choice and THAT is precisely what I find infuriating. You would do well to remember your audience. It's not just about working harder and making your own luck and choices.

Are we discussing the merits of the proposed policy or the right level of empathy owed to a random poster on an anonymous forum?

because I thought we were discussing the policy…

Ah but you wouldn’t win an election by promising higher taxes for everyone . Better to say higher taxes on other people. It’s part of Labour painting a fictional image that people can get better public services without asking whole population to pay more. People like to be lied to so it’s good politics.

She is in an awful situation and that's not relevant to the question "is the education tax a good idea?"

I don't think many people, in any audience, would agree with your approach "I am telling you IN CAPITALS how I feel more strongly about X's tough situation; therefore we have to do Y and if you don't agree then you're minimising X's tough situation".

You have discussed the policy ad nauseam. You appear somewhat bankrupt in the empathy department also. Can you not see why, as a group, you don't do much to encourage support from those unaffected?

Depends on who the audience is. I think you've got both sides in this particular one.

Let's face it people have got used to being lied to repeatedly by the current lot. It's really up to the parties to decide their manifestos and then up to us as voters to decide how to cast our votes. I don't mind paying higher taxes and would prefer a hike at the higher rate levels and I pay top rate tax. However, I am not going to let a single issue govern my vote.

If a rational discussion of the potential impacts of this policy makes you nauseous, feel free to move on to another board. You seem to take great pleasure in screaming on the internet at a group for the financial choices they have made - or is it simply that you resent the idea that anyone has choices that you don’t? - so I suspect you’ll stick around and nitpick individual comments rather than engage in a substantive debate. I would suggest, though, that before you give lessons on ‘tone’ you might want to examine your own.

The debate has been done to death and as a group you have lost. Labour will win and VAT is happening. It is over.

Why do you assume I couldn't afford afford school fees and VAT? That comment alone speaks volumes. I could very easily afford both. I am also free to decide which boards I am on or not on and what comments I make. Who is screaming at anyone? You sound far more angry than I do.

Quite, the point I was trying to make is that even giving up a holiday wouldn't put me anywhere near being able to afford private school fees, so we might as well at least get a bit of joy out of life! We don't have any other big spends. Nothing on house renovations, extremely crappy cars. There is a huge chasm between having one cheapish holiday a year and paying for private school.

I made no assumptions, but you clearly have plenty about me!

Labour might win for a whole host of reasons, but I do think there is still a good chance they will scrap or moderate their proposal on VAT as with a bit of scrutiny it doesn’t make much sense.

but if you think you’ve won, feel free to take that victory lap!

I'm delighted for you and your holidays. None of this has to do with "is taxing education a good idea".

Lots of people have exactly your lifestyle, or your lifestyle without the holidays. Being independent school parents, they also pay shedloads more tax and save the taxpayer £8-12k. If they didn't do that, the state resources that serve you inadequately would be stretched even thinner.

Anyone seriously advocating for better school resources should do so from some other source. Not demanding to be the only country in the world taxing education.

You make no assumptions! Are you joking? You clearly assume that I can't afford fees as well as a whole raft of other things. Shall I remind you...

You seem to take great pleasure in screaming on the internet at a group for the financial choices they have made - or is it simply that you resent the idea that anyone has choices that you don’t? - so I suspect you’ll stick around and nitpick individual comments rather than engage in a substantive debate.

Of course they won't scrap or moderate their proposal. That's just magical thinking on your behalf. You don't seem to read posts. I wrote that I would prefer an increase across the board at the top end of tax rates. I am a top rate tax payer (again) but wouldn't mind this. How does this mean I have won? Ridiculous.

"I'm delighted for you and your holidays" Seriously? Not patronising at all.

Maybe reread what you have written. It might help you actually relate to people.

Good grief. It's because of responses like this that most people have zero sympathy for private school parents. The constant lack of awareness of their own privilege and implication that it's because they care more about their DC's education than the rest of us. How dare you imply that I have chosen two weeks on a French campsite ahead of my SEN daughter's education. It would only make a difference to my ability to pay private school fees for my ASD child if I went on ten such holidays a year. And never mind the younger one who is also waiting for an assessment. I could give up eating and my DC could walk around without clothes and it still would be a drop in the ocean. The vast majority of people CANNOT AFFORD PRIVATE SCHOOL NO MATTER WHAT THEY GIVE UP.

I'm a state school teacher. We will take whatever pennies this policy may drum up. Even better if it gets a few private school parents to climb down off their high horse.