WEP women's declaration

[WEPwoman]

The WEP women's declaration is signed by members and supporters and those who would like to support us by standing shoulder to shoulder across party lines to protect our sex based rights.

ipetitions.com/petition/wep?fbclid=IwAR2Zky5HSd902wH35NSZuo_QzV0Y117_HPZeZdSCTHWMkWNu2HpZQHKvpU8

Sign our petition if you wish to show your support too.

AGP isn't a sexuality, it is a paraphilia.

It doesn't need to be stigmatised, but it should be recognised as such - considering being included as a woman, and gaining access to women's toilets and changing rooms is part of the fetish.

TRAs are actively trying to suppress any information about AGP.

I'm a member and will sign. I agree with people who have said that this small single issue party was (with hind sight) an obvious target for those who want to establish their definition of woman in law and convention. The women's own party adopting that definition would really help their cause.

The only thing I disagree with in the petition is that it gives the impression that the Las distinguishes between sex & gender. It currently doesn't do that well. It's a confusing fudge. The judge who ruled against the nb person having x on their passport (I think that was the detail of the case) made the point that at some point the law would need to account for this distinction properly but hadn't done yet. We need to get that done in a way that will work for women as well as trans people.

hang on - you think AGP is a sexuality like being homosexual or hetrosexual? As opposed to a fetish?

We stand shoulder to shoulder with the women from the Labour, Liberal Democrat and Green Parties who have made similar petitions.

I need this expanded. I understood that the LD & Green positions were that TWAW full stop?

you think AGP is a sexuality like being homosexual or hetrosexual? As opposed to a fetish?

The post said "a lot of people believe it is a sexuality".

Here is Alice Dreger on this:
alicedreger.com/autogyn

1. “As someone who pushes hard against the needless pathologizing and medicalization of body variance, do you think sexual arousal at the thought of being a lady constitutes a philia, and should it be classified that way? Is it good science? Is it good advocacy? Is it both or neither?”

Great questions! A “philia” is by definition just a sexual orientation. I think which ones count as pathological is ultimately a social definition. Some have tried to argue that any philia that couldn’t lead to procreation is pathological. You can make that argument, but I think it is a social argument, as is true with so much of disease categorization in medicine, necessarily.

It makes sense to me to maintain a strong legal concept of which behaviors are allowed—again, it’s about consent.

Of course AGP is a fucking fetish.

Signex

Or signed even.

We stand shoulder to shoulder with the women from the Labour, Liberal Democrat and Green Parties who have made similar petitions.

SNP were first out of the gate...
secure.avaaz.org/en/community_petitions/SNP_members_and_supporters_SNP_Womens_Pledge/

labour-womens-declaration
www.ipetitions.com/petition/labour-womens-declaration
Green party
www.ipetitions.com/petition/green-feminists-women-and-girls-declaration?fbclid=IwAR0_EVxp2QQy6YjGiB6jWWmnj6QydET06F9s06S9kZhd-pOYEf67B6rXXWI
Lib Dems
www.ipetitions.com/petition/lib-dem-sex-based-rights-declaration

Here we are...approaching 400 signatures since our launch late last night.
WEP women's declaration
www.ipetitions.com/petition/wep

Your support is appreciated.

I can't agree. Sexual orientation is homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual. It's about the sex of the person you are attracted to. It's not a description of an activity, or a thing, that sexually arouses someone (eg, dressing as a woman - AGP, or ay other "philia").

theflushedzebra

I only offer this as an explanation as to why so many people are so accepting.

The key however in Alice Dreger's piece is this.

It makes sense to me to maintain a strong legal concept of which behaviors are allowed—again, it’s about consent.

This is the front line.

It's listed in DSM 5 whatever Dreger thinks. A paraphilia is not just a sexuality. It's a fetish

Well. Well well well. Much as I sort of appreciate the attempt to make it up to us for throwing us under the bus, you took your bloody time. What was it that changed your minds? Others doing the hard part and standing up first? You all feeling brave now that there are others speaking out (not just us mean and nasty wummen)? Fair-weather politics, huh?

So what's going to stop you from dropping us all like hot bricks when the going gets tough again? Cos it will. The AGPs and the TRAs will not give up without a fight. Are you going to hold out this time?

Because I don't believe you. I don't believe IN you. Not any more.

You're the fucking WOMENS EQUALITY PARTY. You were supposed to be on our side, and you folded.

I've supported all the other letters.

It simply feels to me that if I am having to tell the WEP what a women is and why sex and gender are different things, why that difference matters then the entire party is completely pointless.

the whole point of WEP was to stick up for and represent women and girls when other parties didn't. And WEP won't even acknowledge what a woman is, let along ringfence and protect those rights. I have no faith in them - they have proved to be completey & sadly disappointing - yet another thing ruined by men. (former founding member).

Actually, WEP, it's a bit more important than that.

Sexual orientation is a protected characteristic under the Equality act.

You start allowing AGP and other fetishes (necrophiia? paedophilia?) to be defined as a sexual orientation at your peril.

As others have said before - You had one job....

AGP isn't a sexuality or an orientation, it is a paraphilia. No one here has tried to argue that anything that cannot involve procreation is a paraphilia. what 'some' may use as the definition of a paraphilia is completely irrelevant
The definition of a paraphilia is an intense sexual response to atypical objects, situations, fantasies, behaviors, or individuals. Paraphilias have more in common with addiction than sexuality.

We do not consent to being used as participants in men's public sexual behaviours. This is not stigmatizing paraphilias.

Not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.

Gertrudesgarden

Much as I sort of appreciate the attempt to make it up to us for throwing us under the bus, you took your bloody time.

The women who have started this petition are not attempting to "make it up to you". We are telling the party leader how many people think this way.

You all feeling brave now that there are others speaking out (not just us mean and nasty wummen)? Fair-weather politics, huh?

Do you believe that insulting us like this for speaking out is a positive and constructive approach to women in politics ?

So what's going to stop you from dropping us all like hot bricks

It is a petition advocating for change. You are neither "dropped" or "not dropped" by signing it.

Because I don't believe you. I don't believe IN you. Not any more.

Who are you addressing? The petitioners or the petitioned?

Please don't sign if you don't support our aim but please don't insult us for doing this.

Not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.

Where did I say I don't understand? To beat the other side you have to understand their beliefs and arguments.

Posters have expressed incredulity that people accept cross dressing/AGP.
I have posted a detailed explanation from someone close to the sexolgist who identified AGP in which she explains why and what she thinks and believes.

Actually, given the tone of your last post WEPwoman I wouldn’t sign your petition now even if I were eligible, but I’m not not being in the UK . People are angry about the party you represent and the previous betrayal they feel they suffered and instead of being conciliatory or even vaguely apologetic you come here asking for a favor while making out like you and the other women who started this petition are the ones doing the favor? As pointed out there are plenty of other similar petitions from other parties women here can sign to show solidarity with women, they don’t need yours.

Fetishes are not sexual orientations.

I mean, come on; if you say that fetishes are sexual orientations it means men in rubber suits wanking at their desks will be protected by legislation.

Fucks sake, people need to wake the fuck up.

Yup, WEPwoman, agree – but the party welcomed transwomen and then bowed under their pressure and in doing so fatally undermined its authority regarding sex-based rights. If the Women's Equality Party can't protect itself from male influence and subversion, who can?

Many of us have been in relationships with AGP's and understand them perfectly well. We don't need lessons on both sides of the argument, especially from such biased sources.

WEP welcomed men who self ID as women right from the start, and that means they excluded us.

Nobody here has made any comment on "accepting" cross-dressing/AGP or not - we're discussing accepting it is a sexual orientation - which is a protected characteristic by law. You seriously think that's a good idea?

I'm beginning to regret signing this petition now. Everybody seems to have taken leave of their senses.

We are telling the party leader how many people think this way.

If your party leader doesn't already know that most people trust biological facts over feelings, then there's not a lot more to say, really.