Overly strict uniform policies in secondary schools - does anyone want MNHQ to run a campaign about this?

[TooStressyForMyOwnGood]

So many secondary schools now seem to have super strict uniform policies. I feel this results in:

Low pupil morale
Parents having to spend a fortune on the latest uniform
Almost impossible to find a black school shoe that is appropriate and yet actually fit for purpose
Exclusions, isolations and detentions for flimsy reasons

And my personal favourites:-

Blazers have to be worn all summer even if children faint
Measuring school skirt length
Pupils not allowed non-school shoes even with a hospital note

I’ve asked MNHQ if they want to run a campaign and they suggested I post here, so here goes.

Personally I am in favour of uniform but would like a common sense approach, which many, many schools achieve with few problems.

Fully expecting posts from people in favour of the rules too.

I think you have to be careful here. Yes, there are some over top rules, but I've heard it framed as "children will try to rebel against the rules. It is much safer and more conducive to learning for the boundary to be set at school uniform than to have a more relaxed atmosphere and have children rebelling in more extreme ways".

Parents who tell their children that the school is unreasonable and rules do not need to be followed may be surprised when their children don't respect teachers, do homework, revise for exams etc.

Many of these super strict schools are trying to turn around entrenched patterns of disrespect and poor achievement. And presumably you knew the uniform policies when you applied to send your child there?

I'd be trying to find a way to support the school and worry about my child's education, personally.

I'd certainly agree to a campaign.

No one is suggesting parents should tell their children to ignore the rules. What is being suggested is that those rules should be much more sensible.

I think a campaign would be a great idea. If there has to be a uniform, be sensible about it, not so pettifogging and exacting that it's harder to comply than it is to fall foul.

No petty, army-style rules-for-the-sake-of-it that teach kids to treat all rules, no matter how useful, with contempt.

No dictating how others experience the climate, or gaslighing them over their own internal thermometer. Don't make the wearing of blazers, sweaters or ties compulsory in the summer. Allow the wearing of coats, boots, and sturdy waterproof shoes in the winter. Mary-Janes in freezing sleet in the middle of January? Come on! That's just cruel.

Don't punish kids for the failings of their parents. Allow some days grace for replacing damaged items, or keep a float of emergency regulation items for kids to borrow if necessary. Don't expect parents to take an afternoon off work to buy shoes that can be replaced at the weekend. We work! Nobody gives us money for free.

Treat the kids with compassion and respect. Be humane and reasonable about the uniform. THAT is what teaches respect for authority. Insisting on zero tolerance for silly, draconian rules has the opposite effect.

As I said before I support your campaign.
May I suggest that the biggest shops in the area - here its Tesco, Sainsburys and Asda are invited and included on every uniform panel, so they can say what they can supply and for what price.
I personally do not agree with logos. They just cost money to produce and do not do anything useful.
Uniforms need to be bright enough the pupils can be seen in the dark.
Supplied kit must be fit for purpose.
Pe kit must be suitable for a whole year - not just for a six week period - ie. 45 pound rugby boots that will not fit next time this comes around.
Pupils must not be punished because their parents do something wrong beyond the pupils control. Ever.
Isolation must be banned.
Parents notes and doctors notes must be listened to and in all but the most stupid cases, acted upon to avoid damaging the Partnership.
Just My Humble Opinion.

No I'm happy for the school to be strict about uniform standards. If I was in charge I'd be bringing in uniform hats, overcoats, regulation shoe list etc

@EvaHarknessRose well said.

It's not just about uniform. Kids in year 7 seem to be living in constant fear of breaking the rules. Really minor things are being punished on first offences. And it's not like you can send them elsewhere - all the schools are the same!

As for uniform I would be happy to see it done in the same way as most primary schools. A logoed top but generic shirt/trousers/skirt and shoes that will survive 5 miles in all weathers daily. And a couple of days grace of something is lost. We had to buy new blazer over the weekend only for the lost (named) one to be returned a few days later.

I do think that some of the posters here are living in an alternate universe.

Shoes that you can walk 5 miles in? Schools here would be ecstatic if pupils wore shoes sensible enough to walk for miles in.

It's like a fashion parade here. Pupils wear the most ridiculous shoes. They are just about uniform compliant but so flimsy that they look like they'll fall apart after 5 minutes.

Girls' skirts are kilts to stop them from rolling up but a lot of girls wear trousers. I've noticed recently that boys and girls now are wearing the super skinny trousers that look like they are painted on.

All of these infractions are clearly supported by the parents. They could lessen the likelihood of the school implementing a stricter policy by adhering to the current one.

I work in a place where I have to wear a uniform. It's interesting how many young people are constantly in trouble for not wearing the correct uniform and the outrage that they display when pulled up on it.

I don't think any school should be measuring skirts unless underwear is showing or they are measuring how low boys are wearing their trousers!

I don't think any school should be measuring skirts unless underwear is showing or they are measuring how low boys are wearing their trousers!

I have never seen a schoolboy wearing low slung trousers - yes when out of uniform but never in uniform.

If schools say that skirts should be knee length then that is what they should be. That is my uniform at work. If I went in wearing a miniskirt I would be in trouble.

What is so terrible about telling a girl that her skirt is too short? I would expect bots to be told off if their trousers were suspended under their bum or in some way breaking the rule.

Skirts for secondary school aged children need to be sold by waist measurement and length, not a size by age. So you can buy a 26" to fit an 11 year old, and a longer 26" to fit a tall 16 year old.

I agree.
Blazers worn all year in sweltering heat, seems silly.

Please put your energies into improving education not whinging about uniform rules.

The point us that, for all too many schools, uniform rules are a sticking plaster over the fact that they're not spending time on improving education. New heads seem to think that the way to demonstrate how wonderful they are is to impose an expensive new uniform and then enforce it by ridiculous punishments like long-term isolation, which means teachers wasting their time fussing about ties and children spending long periods out of lessons. How does that improve education?

Another up for it.

I'm all for uniform and rules in general.

But I'm afraid things like not being able to replace shoes immediately and punishment for wearing something different for a few days (with note from parent) is driving a large wedge in society again between social class or people from poorer socioeconomic backgrounds.

A child will learn more in class in a pair of any shoes than isolated in a room.

I feel this is a good place to share this!

I worked for a holiday company late 90's/early 20's. When I started the airport uniform was like the schools we are discussing.

Skin colour tights
Red lipstick
Court shoes with min heel height, leather.
No sunglasses
Jacket/blazer must be worn.

We were stood for 1-2 hours in 28-38°c direct sunshine.

We challenged it correctly. We asked what the rationale was. We got told things like "lipstick stops lips drying out in heat" we asked why then our supervisors didn't have same rules if H and S.

We asked how they could judge what was best when they hadn't and didn't and weren't doing our job. We asked why we couldn't have water bottles to drink rather than lipstick. Why we couldn't protect our eyes from the sun (with evidence of damage).

The infirm slowly changed over the years.

It's just dawned on me whilst writing this that nowadays when I go on holiday I'm met by a transfer rep wearing tailored shorts and a company t shirt. I don't care what they wear - I care they are identifiable and do their job well and are polite and informative.

Image is important - but a companies or schools image will also be projected by the behaviour of the employees/pupils.

And my ds school do the no blazer in summer. Usually after May half term. They had the foresight to move it forward this year when it was evident by mid April the intense heat was here to stay. (South coast!)

These draconian rules are not easier for teachers to spend time teaching either.

For example.

Geography teacher spends 3x1 he lessons in a week covering covering infrastructure. This is part of gcse geography.

Jonny's Mum is off LT sick and cannot work bit the PIP assessment failed so her income has dropped yet she still has a mortgage to pay and bus pass to get Jonny to school.

Jonny shoes break. Mum can't afford a new pair straight away. Jonny wears alternative with more from mum.

Jonny school says "no excuses" "zero tolerance" and Jonny spends a week in isolation. Mum eats toast and beans for a week to afford a cheap pair of supermarket shoes for Jonny.

Jonny returns to lessons.

Teacher has finished infrastructure and moved onto landscapes.

Jonny May get a lower grade due to missed teaching due to living in poverty. Jonny gets lower than target grade.

Teacher doesn't get his/her pay rise as it's performance based pay structure. Teacher then has their well-being damaged.

Someone tell me again how this is in the best interests of our society to impose zero excuses and tolerance rules which will applied without any context what so ever?

But surely you can see that if everyone complied with the uniform then on the odd occasion when Johnny's shoes fell apart or Fred lost his blazer and they had to wait a week to replace them then schools would be understanding.

The fact is that many parents and pupils have the attitude that the rules don't apply to them so they'll buy the mega expensive trainers, that they know full well aren't shoes, to go back to school in and when the school refuse them they claim that they've cost £150 and they can't afford to buy new shoes. Cue sad face photo in the papers about how terrible schools are and how their child is missing their education. When actually they could have spent £50 on a pair of Clarks shoes, saved money and abided by the uniform policy. But no, that isn't trendy or fashionable.

It's these parents that have ruined it for everyone.

I think also uniform needs to move with the times. There aren't a lot of jobs that require wearing a heavy blazer during a heatwave so why do secondary school pupils need to learn to.

Also schools need to relax about hair. At my school at every start of term all the natural blondes would literally get an interrogation about their hair colour

The campaign should be for common sense uniform. Unfortunately for every kid whose family can't afford shoes or tall girl who can't wear the regulation skirt, there are probably 20 who deliberately push the boundaries with trainers, leggings etc. I would go for simple inclusive uniform enforced in a businesslike way and with a discreet emergency fund available to FSM families. Also supplier needs to go up to adult sizes, my friends daughter had size 9 feet she despaired of shoes.

Haven’t RTWT but girls aren’t allowed to wear trousers and DD’s secondary, blazers are compulsory, sweaty tan tights with summer dresses, opaque tights with skirts when they got back in September even if we are having an Indian summer. Etc., etc..

All a bit daft imo.

Weetabix are you saying Jonny should be punished because his mum has become disabled and unable to work and has been refused disability benefits - because other children haven't followed the rules previously?

I get my example is extreme but it shows the problem with no excuses / zero tolerance. It doesn't allow for life's mishaps and disadvantages those who fall victim of it.

Realistic rules with sensible application is what I'm campaigning for

After growing up in the 70's where the school uniform was a navy jumper and skirt, I endured years if horror as my clothing cane from the market and my parents could not keep up with the latest designer jumpers. I was bullied for it

My DC do go to a strict uniform school. The whole uniform is less than £50 and the school shoes is simple remit plain black shoes. There is no bullying regarding uniform.

I think if you change the uniform policy you will create another problem

We did speak to the school regarding our uniform and the school listened and changed it

Can anyone link to a school uniform policy where a single uniform infringement would result in a day in isolation?
I have never come across this. What I come across a lot in my school is the following:
8 rules broken results in isolation so a student has not done homework, is running in the corridor, is late to a couple of lessons, talks when the teacher is talking twice, doesn't have a pen at period 2, even though they were given one that morning, chewing gum, then turns up in black jeans instead of school trousers. So the eighth infringement is uniform and of to isolation they go. Sad face story 'my angel misses out on education for wearing the wrong trousers'
Absolute rubbish.

SnuggyBuggy
A school I nearly applied for a job at had a staff dress code stating full business dress at all times, jackets at all times.

I normally wear skirt/trousers, blouse and blazers to work because I can't stand staff looking unprofessional, but my normal work dress would fall short of their policy because my skirts and blazers don't match.

Unsurprisingly, between that and their behaviour policy, I didn't apply for a job there.

Our school will help families who can't get the uniform it is a state school.