Overly strict uniform policies in secondary schools - does anyone want MNHQ to run a campaign about this?

[TooStressyForMyOwnGood]

So many secondary schools now seem to have super strict uniform policies. I feel this results in:

Low pupil morale
Parents having to spend a fortune on the latest uniform
Almost impossible to find a black school shoe that is appropriate and yet actually fit for purpose
Exclusions, isolations and detentions for flimsy reasons

And my personal favourites:-

Blazers have to be worn all summer even if children faint
Measuring school skirt length
Pupils not allowed non-school shoes even with a hospital note

I’ve asked MNHQ if they want to run a campaign and they suggested I post here, so here goes.

Personally I am in favour of uniform but would like a common sense approach, which many, many schools achieve with few problems.

Fully expecting posts from people in favour of the rules too.

Im in.

I disagree with uniform bit if they have to have it then it should be affordable and rules around it sensible.

One supplier crap should be banned.

And the sexist crap needs to be cut out as well. It's not ok that boys can buy supermarket trousers but girls are forced to buy over priced skirts from designated suppliers. There may well be a trouser option for girls but let's be honest here. How many non skinny trousers actually fit nicely on girls? I'm yet to find some that don't make them look like they are wearing a nappy , or that don't have duck sides. And skorts are far more expensive than shorts.

Sturdy shoes should also be allowed. And not banned because they are kickers and dms due to red dots or a bit of stitching. If you want kids to walk to school they need the means to be able to do it.

Agree with the blazer rules being nonsense too. Who's even gonna see if they have it off or on.

There's nothing wrong with high street and supermarket stuff. Blazers and logo jumpers are expensive unnecessary and often poor quality nonsense

It's always about the 'how and when' on challenging.
Our students know how and when to challenge authority. They wouldn't do some of the shit we see on MN where it's acceptable to disrupt a lesson arguing over tucking your shirt in.

I have come to associate these very draconian uniform policies with failing schools.

yes, absolutely.

Yes I was going to post the same thing almost yesterday. I will come back later to do a longer post.

"Proponents of school uniform often argue that it gives pupils a sense of pride in their school and these petty and uncompromising rules achieve the opposite."

Yes, this.

I went to a private school in the 80s with a "strict" uniform and single supplier, but common sense was applied. For example, it was a given that children could look at the weather and make their own decision as to whether to wear a jumper and/or blazer, or neither.

I'm in.

Wow, glad to have some support . Tbh I was hoping just to convince @MNHQ to run a campaign. Given that we can’t assume that will happen, what does anyone think are the next steps? Looking for easy steps here . I like the ideas of trying to get the school admissions code more enforceable, alternatives to single suppliers and a summer and winter uniform (summer could simply be no blazer rather than anything very expensive). Ideally I’d like to do something about the shoe issues too. So basically all of it!

UnderMajorDomoMinor, were you thinking letters / emails type things then? I suppose there is always the option of starting a petition myself with something like Change.org but that will out me if I do it immediately!

I went to a school with no uniform. I hate them.

However if they must exist they should be as practical and cost effective as possible. The arts school here policy is wear what you want as long as it's plain red or white or black. The kids at that school look really smart so the parent adherence to the dress code must be strong. They don't care where you buy it from it even says on their website 'widely available in various shops'

I’d certainly support this. I find it utterly ridiculous how much emphasis is put on uniform. My DCs school blazer, tie and sports kit is only supplied by one shop.

I only have sons, but I have been told that girls are having their skirt length measured as they go in to school. My son was put into isolation for having too great a difference in length between the front and sides of his hair! Makes you wonder how children manage to achieve anything in schools where they don’t wear uniform, i.e. the US and most of Europe

@ShannonRockallMalin exactly

I have secondary age dc, friends with dc, and I work in childrens mental health. Among them all I see petty rules and restrictions and crazy enforcement making them feel less like a valued person and more like a number. And its not helping their mental health.

Detentions for lost clip on ties (which used to be available to buy or borrow in school but no longer are).
SLT slamming 10 students with uniform points ON THEIR WAY OUT OF A GCSE EXAM. No ‘well done, we’ve got your back’, just criticism heaped on criticism.
A student signed off by a consultant from PE on medical grounds and school aware of a level of medical risk made to get changed into lost property PE kit and stand in the cold and rain for a double PE lesson.
SLT standing at the gate ‘pinching’ a few cms of girls trousers to see if they are too tight.

And not uniform but also
Arbitrary changes to what corridors students can walk down or where they can eat their lunch (having a significant impact on some dc with autism or anxiety).
Lunchtime detention on the day for forgetting your homework or PE kit ONCE.
Constant testing and work. Lengthy homeworks set with a three line whip on it being well presented as it is for assessment and display, amd then it is not ever marked (this happens again and again).
Refusing to let them ring their parents when they are sick.

Schools are being bad parents while our young people are in their care. I want to see them have conversations with dc about expectations, to take the time to recognise their achievements and develop rapport with them. To help them find their niche in school so it feels like they belong. Not turn them into the borg. The blame lies with our past and present governments and with school leadership - not with the individual teachers. They are being ground down too. Most good ones come for a year and then go work in Dubai, or get sick, leaving the classrooms run by supply or new teachers some or whom are not equipped to teach their subjects. Thankfully we still have many amazing teachers - the one who’s pushed my dd to do music clubs with enthusiasm, the one who’s given dd a mention in the newsletter, the one who’s encouraged her to be a library helper, the one who’s picked up on her talent, the one who’s introduced DofE, the one who has been a mentor and the one who has refused to care about picking her up on the wrong colour trainers. Yes, kids need boundaries, especially if they are struggling outside school, but they need compassionate boundaries with a rationale that can be explained and challenged - changed if students have a good point. What they don’t need is uniform issues being used as a proxy for ‘having safe battles’.

@EvaHarknessRose your name makes me think you live in letchworth.

Meanwhile your stories horrify me. I wouldn't blame the kids for simply walking out

i Think the strict policies are good. Black and white. The kids know whats allowed, less time teaching staff having to deal with non compliance. How about a petition for better funding? Absolutely ridiculous focusing on uniform.

I think that the problem is that people will never agree on a uniform suitable for everyone. Schools generally want to make things simple and affordable for everyone, so that children can go into school and concentrate on being school children, not on whether they look fashionable or sexy or a member of a specific social group. (These 'looks' cause all kinds of disruption to a learning environment.)

What about identifying shoes that are suitable for healthy foot development and ensuring that children will always have well-fitting shoes in good condition? Can people agree on a uniform that is comfortable in all seasons and all lessons? I doubt it. So schools will just continue to do their best, and many parents and children will choose to cooperate, while some will rebel and want special treatment.

Apparently, some of the schools abroad that don't have uniforms are introducing them because of the perceived benefits. I wonder how that will work out.

The kids know whats allowed, less time teaching staff having to deal with non compliance.

but (some) teachers spend a lot of time enforcing school uniforms. and sometimes it's not black&white as per a lot of examples above.

I like a regulation style as long as it's mass produced, ie. Not specific to the school and therefore cheaper. This is because at my secondary we could wear any style of skirt. There was a new trendy style each year and I've seen people in their 40s say on Facebook how they hated never being able to afford the trendy style. At dc's school kids can wear hand me downs and no one would know as they wash well and are regulation style. A friend's dd has had the same one skirt for over 4 years, so has got a lot of wears for her money. They come in a wide range of sizes and lengths and are allowed to be up to mid thigh, plus there's a trouser option. So i prefer a regulation style as long as it's not expensive.

Totally agree lalafafa. You only have to watch the current BBC series 'School' to see that the crisis in our schools is not about uniform, it's about basics such as the funding and staffing of our schools.

Look for the 'Schools' thread and you'll see posters Talking about school buildings in such states of fisrrpaurs that whole classrooms have been abandoned and kids are wearing their coats to keep warm in class.

Please put your energies into improving education not whinging about uniform rules.

Disrepair not fisrepurs it whatever I just mistyped!!

I do agree about the lack of funding in schools being a significant worry. I have written to my MP more than once over this, try to vote baring this in mind and share things from School Cuts and similar. Sadly I’m not sure what else we can do about it; I suspect the current government really won’t care about a petition but would happily sign one and am open to other ways of campaigning about it. I feel very dismal about our education system in general despite the fact I think most teachers do an amazing job under difficult circumstances.

Doesn’t stop me being concerned about uniform rules and the detrimental effect on children.

School uniform code. Read it and adhere to it. No idea why there has to be such bloody hysteria and drama. It's really not difficult for kids to wear what is required and parents to enforce it.

id support this. I think logoed stuff from single suppliers is expensive. A nice uniform of plain items that are readily available should be enough. The only 'special to the school' item being a tie. I don't get the point of blazers, they aren't an outdoor coat which would be useful, but they are too hot to wear inside an heated building. A shirt, tie and a v neck jumper should be enough.

I will check out that thread.

I would absolutely support this. My daughter (now 22) got hounded out of secondary school because of bloody uniform rules. She was an A grade student and they nearly jeopardised that. The teachers waited for her outside school and sent her straight home nearly every day. My daughter is really strong but she came home crying every day. In the end I moved her.

I'm in a really high earning position at work and my experience is most high earning roles don't require you to wear a uniform.

I feel so strongly about this I made sure my son went to a no-uniform school. The kids are so polite and well behaved and he is very happy.

Just as kids are growing up and finding their feet, schools are slapping on them the most draconian measures. Not allowing kids to be themselves. Ridiculous.

Sadly there are too many parents who seem to think that their children are above the rules and shouldn't have to wear certain styles of uniform for whatever reason. Hence why we are where we are now.

No I wouldn't support this. Many schools are struggling with cuts and poor discipline in school. Parents should be trying to support the schools.