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Petitions and activism

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To ask you to sign this petition about women's prisons

608 replies

kendoddsdadsdogsdead18 · 29/10/2018 15:28

You may remember recently the case of Karen White, who is physically a man but self id'ed as a women. White was sent to prison after carrying out a vicious attack and was subsequently housed in the female estate. Within days White raped 2 women and thank god, is now housed in the male estate.

However, there are simply no guarantees that this situation would not happen occur. If self id became the law over here, women in prison,l who are often vulnerable & as a group are statistically to be more likely to have experienced sexual assault will be most at risk. In Ireland where self id is already law transwomen are housed in the male estate. Over here, where self id isn't even law, we have gone one huge step further than Ireland by allowing fully in tact males into the female estate.

In prison showers and getting dressed is open and shared. Personally I could not imagine personally having to shower naked in front of a male bodied stranger. It's bad enough in front of women. I think it says a lot about a society that carefully considers the privacy, dignity and safety of it's most vulnerable members. As I understand it, there are currently male bodied prisoners in every female estate.

If you feel, as I do that prison rules should reviewed, please take a look at and sign this
petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

OP posts:
BiologyMatters · 05/11/2018 07:16

By compromising we could learn how each small demand for our outward acquiescence could lead to the next, and with the gentle persistence of an incoming tide could lap at the walls of just that integrity we were so anxious to preserve.

What a wonderful quote to demonstrate how gender critical women feel about all this. Well done.

naivetyisthenewblack · 05/11/2018 07:32

The text of the petition is clear. What FPFW want is for women to be consulted on issues that affect us (in this instance prisons), as there hasn't been a lot of that going on recently.

They could just say - we want men kept out of women's prisons - but I imagine it's strategic. If so Rat is right in a way, there is an underlying aim FPFW are pushing - which is the idea that women should be included in conversations about policy and laws that affect us. Shocking!!

naivetyisthenewblack · 05/11/2018 07:33

Actually, sarcasm aside it is shocking that in 2018 women are having to campaign to be included in conversations about policy that impacts the safety and well being of some of the most vulnerable women in our society.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/11/2018 07:45

^^ The Bielenberg quote's going to backfire on me isn't it… blush

Yup

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/11/2018 07:47

And what naivety said at 7.33

Ereshkigal · 05/11/2018 08:27

How you can equate sex segregation in prison with Yes, because nobody goes from zero straight to genocide, do they? is exactly why people think "random batshit frother".

Indeed.

FruitCider · 05/11/2018 08:27

Yes, because nobody goes from zero straight to genocide, do they? The Nazis didn't start by saying "elect us and we'll murder six million people". They started by saying "These are our rights and those other people perhaps don't deserve them so much and ooh aren't those other unfortunate people there an unnecessary burden on you?,"

Except this is happening to women, and not transgender people, women are being erased, the term female and woman is being erased, we are being put at higher risk of being murdered and raped because the rights of men that feel like women are being put above and beyond the rights of women. So I think the use of the word "genocide" may be appropriate, just not in the way rat intended it.

Ereshkigal · 05/11/2018 08:29

What a wonderful quote to demonstrate how gender critical women feel about all this. Well done.

And yes, I agree.

Ereshkigal · 05/11/2018 08:30

Also what Fruit said.

WarmWishes · 05/11/2018 08:49

I appear to have read posts from individuals that have somehow equated a petition to look at, hopefully keeping males out of the female estate to the road to genocide. Interestingly it was the road to genocide for males not females! 🤨👀😮

My mind is now boggling so hard I don't know what to say!

Please sign the petition. I can only imagine it was people with the above mindset that allowed this insanity to occur in the first place!

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

Datun · 05/11/2018 09:23

It always strikes me a fresh. Not allowing males free access to incarcerated females, purely on their say so, is akin to murder, genocide, and erasure of those males.

TalkingintheDark · 05/11/2018 09:35

Well done WereFox for that delightful own goal!

I’m staggered. Wanting single sex prisons is the first step to genocide now?

Wow.

I can’t even...

TalkingintheDark · 05/11/2018 09:42

Beautifully observed, Datun.

Yes, we do see it over and over again. Women saying no to men is literal violence against those men.

Rat et al always make the spurious case that not saying yes to every single one of the TRAs’ demands means we don’t see those males as human.

But it’s actually dangerously entitled males, drunk on the millennia’s worth of privilege that they received as their birth right, who don’t see women as human beings.

We don’t exist as people in our own right, only as an extension of them or to facilitate them.

How else to explain their baffled incomprehension and rage when we dare to put our own needs ahead of theirs?

ErrolTheDragon · 05/11/2018 10:06

there is an underlying aim FPFW are pushing - which is the idea that women should be included in conversations about policy and laws that affect us. Shocking!!

Yup. The petition doesn't demand a specific outcome of the review, or that FPFW should be consulted. Just that women need to be consulted.

Hopefully the dots can be joined - women weren't consulted about the prison issue and the current rules are demonstrably not fit for purpose.

DrudgeJedd · 05/11/2018 10:52

Signed & shared.
The contempt for incarcerated women shown by some people on this thread is horrible to read.

DukeOfSmellington · 05/11/2018 12:33

Sorry to jump on, but women in prison don't have to shower in front of each other , do they? Surely they get to wash in private?

Signed anyway

Ereshkigal · 05/11/2018 12:56

It seems they do. I'm not sure if this is a universal rule but women have been forced to shower naked with MTF trans.

ARosebyAnyOtherNameChange · 05/11/2018 13:01

I don't know if it's general, but (fantastically reputable source: Cosmopolitan interview!): I found this online -
'“In some prisons you have your own cell, with a shower/toilet. In other cases you have to share, including the toilet, and showers are communal – and sometimes also used as a toilet.'

But that doesn't actually say that the showers are open, it could mean 'communal room with cubicles, all with shower curtains/doors'. Maybe @FruitCider knows the answer.

FruitCider · 05/11/2018 13:59

ARose is right, some prisons have showers in cells, some have communal showers. The communal showers are communal eg it's just a room with multiple showers in. Showers in cells are covered by a curtain, communal showers are protected by privacy glass but there is no individual cubicles.

Datun · 05/11/2018 14:01

FruitCider

Do you know why that is? It seems to deliberately remove women's dignity.

Curtains, surely, can't be much to ask for?

FruitCider · 05/11/2018 14:09

So no one is hidden behind a curtain... for the same reasons most wings are designed not to have blind spots and when prisoners are on association the bolts are shot on the doors so people cannot be locked in against their will.

Datun · 05/11/2018 14:15

So they can't harm themselves, or be attacked?

FruitCider · 05/11/2018 15:28

Yes.

Datun · 05/11/2018 17:52

This is why it's such a mess. If you are going to deem a man a woman, then absolutely he will be showering naked with the women. Because otherwise what's your reason not to?

Deceitful, dangerous, misogynistic garbage.

WereFox · 05/11/2018 18:26

It always strikes me a fresh. Not allowing males free access to incarcerated females, purely on their say so, is akin to murder, genocide, and erasure of those males.

Nobody said it was akin, Datun. Ffs, you're supposed to be one of the brains of this operation, aren't you? Yet you can't construe a simple sentence correctly. Or more likely won't.

And I can't help noticing nobody's got back to be on the DM-faux-outrage comparison, because that's right, you support the DM now.