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Petitions and activism

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To ask you to sign this petition about women's prisons

608 replies

kendoddsdadsdogsdead18 · 29/10/2018 15:28

You may remember recently the case of Karen White, who is physically a man but self id'ed as a women. White was sent to prison after carrying out a vicious attack and was subsequently housed in the female estate. Within days White raped 2 women and thank god, is now housed in the male estate.

However, there are simply no guarantees that this situation would not happen occur. If self id became the law over here, women in prison,l who are often vulnerable & as a group are statistically to be more likely to have experienced sexual assault will be most at risk. In Ireland where self id is already law transwomen are housed in the male estate. Over here, where self id isn't even law, we have gone one huge step further than Ireland by allowing fully in tact males into the female estate.

In prison showers and getting dressed is open and shared. Personally I could not imagine personally having to shower naked in front of a male bodied stranger. It's bad enough in front of women. I think it says a lot about a society that carefully considers the privacy, dignity and safety of it's most vulnerable members. As I understand it, there are currently male bodied prisoners in every female estate.

If you feel, as I do that prison rules should reviewed, please take a look at and sign this
petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

OP posts:
ElectricMonkey · 04/11/2018 20:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpringIsSprung1 · 04/11/2018 20:23

Done!

BiologyMatters · 04/11/2018 20:32

Electric if you did skip over her posts you wouldn't be missing much.

ElectricMonkey · 04/11/2018 20:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BiologyMatters · 04/11/2018 20:39

Oh yes I'm sure that can't be her intention Grin

PencilsInSpace · 04/11/2018 21:21

Flowers ElectricMonkey

I made a conscious decision some months ago not to directly engage with that poster. Her posts are still there and it's hard not to read them, but reading them while knowing I'm not going to respond limits the mental damage. It's like reading some random batshit frother commenting under a news article. Just not worth it.

PencilsInSpace · 04/11/2018 21:49

Britain first gamed the FB algorithms relentlessly. I'm not convinced the Government petitions website has the same potential for mischief Grin

FPFW and Dr Nicola Williams are very straightforward about their positions. If anybody is in any doubt, please do follow Datun's links and have a good nose round their website. There's loads of good stuff on there.

If the petition gets 10,000 signatures we will get a Government response and they will respond to the actual text of the petition, not to the secret evil nefarious aims of FPFW as dreamed up in someones fevered head. The text of the petition reads:

Review rules that allow male prisoners who identify as female in women's prisons

Fair Play For Women is calling for MPs to ensure the relevant prison rules are urgently reviewed, in full consultation with women's organisations. Prison guidance PSI-17/2016 allows male prisoners who identity as female to be moved to a female prison at the discretion of a Transgender Case Board.

No women's organisations were consulted when the prison rules were updated in 2016. The effect on female prisoners has not been adequately assessed. Current rules are not fit for purpose and must be urgently reviewed.

What's not to like?

RatUnholyRolyPoly · 04/11/2018 22:37

I've seen the mass graves in Poland where many of my relatives were killed.

Don't play WW2 top trumps with me matey, I've got family history like you wouldn't believe! Why do you think I have such a bee in my bonnet about the sorts of techniques employed to make good people do bad things? Why do you think I care about the likes of Britain First and Trump? Why do you think I'm spending hours of my life posting in defence of human rights, tolerance, respect and individual self-expression and liberty?

My only real question to you in the wake of our somewhat shared history is... why aren't you?

Oh and Datun, a Woman's Place position on prisons...

"Single sex exemptions to be invoked as a policy by the prison service
Necessary adjustments to be made within the male estate to properly support and care for trans prisoners."

So... all trans women, fully transitioned or not, aged or not, regardless of crime, going into a segregated exclusion zone within the men's estate.

RatUnholyRolyPoly · 04/11/2018 22:38

...what's not to like??

FermatsTheorem · 04/11/2018 22:43

Seriously - you want to mention Top Trumps in connection with the Holocaust. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Datun · 04/11/2018 22:50

So... all trans women, fully transitioned or not, aged or not, regardless of crime, going into a segregated exclusion zone within the men's estate.

That's right, Rat. They want exclusion from men. That's perfectly doable. It doesn't mean they get to be included with women.

It's very simple.

A) Transwomen conform to male pattern violence and behaviour.

B) Anyone can say they are trans.

C) 64% of the women in prison are victims of sexual trauma. They should not be incarcerated with men. Especially men whose sense of womanhood is a sexual stereotype.

RatUnholyRolyPoly · 04/11/2018 22:52

Fermats are you joking? Someone just tried to tell me their history - not all that different to my own - means I am not entitled to reference the Nazis. Well in saying if I need to give you a good story of family suffering in the second world war in order to be able to bring it up, well woman have I got one!

So thank you very much, I will be pointing out when I see a technique being used today that has been used recently by the likes of Britain First and right the way back through modern history, when I see that turning people to intolerance I'm damn well going to speak out about it.

Because I swore, on the back of the stories I grew up with of what happened to my family, their friends, and their countrymen, that I would never stand by and watch people paint other people as less than them.

You deserve respect in your beliefs because they are the science you chose to believe.

But trans people do not deserve respect in their beliefs because it is NOT the science you choose to believe.

And so you'd have them holed up in some wing of a men's jail, even when they truly believe themselves to be female (not without the backup of experts in the field) and have taken steps to make truly bloody match that assertion, AND they pose no threat to the safety, dignity or privacy of other female inmates...

That's wrong.

And it is not a derail to say so.

RatUnholyRolyPoly · 04/11/2018 22:53

Truly bloody = their body

Ereshkigal · 04/11/2018 22:53

Don't play WW2 top trumps with me matey, I've got family history like you wouldn't believe!

You're unbelievable.

Ereshkigal · 04/11/2018 22:55

Oh Rat.

Datun · 04/11/2018 22:56

But trans people do not deserve respect in their beliefs because it is NOT the science you choose to believe.

They can believe what they like. They can't make other people believe it.

Ereshkigal · 04/11/2018 22:56

Males do not belong in women's prisons.

Ereshkigal · 04/11/2018 22:58

They can believe what they like. They can't make other people believe it.

And yes. The "science" they rely on is laughable.

Ereshkigal · 04/11/2018 23:01

that I would never stand by and watch people paint other people as less than them.

Except you do that to women, don't you, all the time, because you don't care what they feel. Only your woke male friends matter.

BiologyMatters · 04/11/2018 23:33

Single sex exemptions to be invoked as a policy by the prison service. Necessary adjustments to be made within the male estate to properly support and care for trans prisoners."So... all trans women, fully transitioned or not, aged or not, regardless of crime, going into a segregated exclusion zone within the men's estate.

What's wrong with that?

ElectricMonkey · 05/11/2018 00:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WereFox · 05/11/2018 02:00

Oh but rat is only trying to make sure people remain moderate and not go too far to one side or the other. I'm not sure how rat thinks comparing ordinary women to Nazis and Britain first is being moderate and not going too far but I'm absolutely sure she will have an excellent explanation. Positive.

Yes, because nobody goes from zero straight to genocide, do they? The Nazis didn't start by saying "elect us and we'll murder six million people". They started by saying "These are our rights and those other people perhaps don't deserve them so much and ooh aren't those other unfortunate people there an unnecessary burden on you?," aka, othering. Or from Christabel Bielenberg's point of view, By compromising we could learn how each small demand for our outward acquiescence could lead to the next, and with the gentle persistence of an incoming tide could lap at the walls of just that integrity we were so anxious to preserve. And if you haven't understood that what have you understood?

This board is being suffocated by people who use others' suffering as a human shield for their beliefs.

No shit.

And the way you're talking about Rat - "random batshit frother"?!! is a level of personal abuse that I've never seen her direct at you on here.

SoleBizzz · 05/11/2018 02:28

Signed

WereFox · 05/11/2018 06:05

^^ The Bielenberg quote's going to backfire on me isn't it… Blush

Datun · 05/11/2018 06:52

Good lord.

How you can equate sex segregation in prison with Yes, because nobody goes from zero straight to genocide, do they? is exactly why people think "random batshit frother".

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